Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Hannah “Asher” Sham

Show Intro and Disclaimer

Kylo: You’re listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk! Is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ, PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, on , and

Meet the Hosts

Zoe: Hi, everyone! Welcome back to “A Slice of Life”. This is episode two of our podcast. I’m your host, Zoe, we’ve got our co-host Tucker as well, and today our guest host is going to be someone I consider my adoptive older sibling. Someone who’s had to educate me practically about most of the things that I know now about safety and flavor combinations, and their name is Kuma. Hi, Kuma!

Kuma: Hello, everyone!

Mediterranean Pasta Overview

Zoe: So, today we’re going to be making a dish that’s definitely been something that embodies the idea of simple, yet tasty, and something that will sustain you with lots of nutrients and nutrition. Kuma, could you explain a little bit about this recipe?��

Kuma: Yeah, this is called a one pot Mediterranean pasta dish. A lot of stuff you can easily find anywhere. Like the title says, it only uses one pot and it’s very, very straightforward. We’re gonna do a chopped red onion, three garlic cloves minced, or as much garlic as you would like, a cup and a half of vegetable stock, dried oregano, so about a teaspoon or two, 1.5 ounces, so that’s about one can, of diced tomatoes, eight ounces uncooked spaghetti noodles, a whole bunch of spinach; basically, spinach wilts very quickly, so you can use a whole bag of spinach for it. One cup cooked chickpeas, so that’s about one can of chickpeas that you can buy in the canned section of the grocery store, a cup and a half feta cheese, Kalamata Olives, and then salt and pepper, of course.

Zoe: And those are, like, some wonderful canned goods that you can use. Because, I know that you soaked the beans and then you cooked them earlier. But, we can definitely use canned ones as well. You said 1.5 ounces of tomatoes? And that was-��

Kuma: 14.5.��

Zoe: Ah, 14.5!��

Kuma: Wow, I’m sorry.��

Zoe: No sweat at all. So, what are we starting with? How do we start everything off now that we’ve got our ingredients?��

Prep Tips and Cut Gloves

Kuma: Well, first, let’s make sure you have all your ingredients in front of you, right? So, all the ingredients, the red onion, the garlic, the stock, the oregano, the spaghetti noodles, the diced tomatoes, the spinach, the chickpeas, the feta, the Kalamata olives. That’s gonna take a little while, right? You’re gonna take your onion and your garlic and prep it all. I’m just peeling off the skin of the onion. I’m pretty sure there’s a fancy word for “prepping”. But, I’m just saying, “it’s prepping”.

Zoe: Well, at the end of the day, simple is easier. “Prepping”, whatever other words to call it, and I’ve always had issues “prepping”. It’s been tough, and learning has been tough, especially without any sense of sight or smell. Originally when I started learning how to prep food, ’cause I was so bad at knife cuts, I would always wear these things called cut gloves. These are gloves that are really helpful, really nice for protecting your hands from accidentally cutting or injuring yourself. They’re pretty cheap, too. You can pick them up from Kohl’s, Fred Meyer’s, pretty easily. So, if you’re afraid of the knives or any of the danger, go ahead and get yourself some cut gloves. Those are great.��

Kuma: Okay, so I’m just … I peeled the onion. And, I cut it in half. What I did with one onion, one of those halves, was I cut it in half again, horizontally towards the stem twice, and then I made some vertical knife cuts down, so we’re gonna have more of an even chop on the onion.

Zoe: See, I’ve always just cut mine in a grid pattern, and I know that would bring some larger chunks, some smaller chunks. So, I suppose that your method can make things a whole lot more even, right?��

Kuma: Yes. I’m not saying I am a prodigy at kitchen knife cuts, when it comes to chopping. But, this is something I learned working in restaurants.

Zoe: Oh, absolutely. This is something that you’ve tried to drill into me as well. Because, as you know, my knife cuts, while passable, are not the finest.��

Knife Cuts and Flavor

Kuma: Well, if you think about it, to have knife cuts like this means that every bite is gonna be even in what is being served. So, say you cut half the onion larger than the other half of the onion. Then you’re gonna have larger chunks of onion and smaller slices of onion, and when you mix that all together and serve it, someone is gonna get more onion in their dish than another person. So, it won’t be a consistent flavor profile across the board.

Zoe: And, not only that, but I think you’ve told me before, right? Doesn’t the size of stuff and the way that it’s cut, like ginger, or if you julienne, long, thin strips like of a carrot or something, doesn’t that also change the flavor profile?��

Kuma: I believe so. It gives it a more interesting texture and body across the board, as well. Let’s see. How can I explain it? ‘

Zoe: Cause, I’ve noticed when we use like matchstick-length pieces of ginger, the ginger becomes much more fragrant and robust, when I’m frying it for ginger pork, for instance.��

Kuma: Yeah. So, say we wanted big slices of onion, yellow onion, specifically, for a sandwich. Or, we were making Onion Rings, right?��

Zoe: Oh, yeah, yeah.��

Kuma: So, the name “Onion Ring” is very synonymous to how you wanna cut the onion. You want a full slice of onion so you can batter it and then deep-fry it. But, you wouldn’t do that with small cuts of onion.��

Zoe: Especially ’cause, with those small cuts, you don’t wanna always go high heat all the time because you don’t wanna be like… I would illustrate it with a point from when I was first starting to learn how to cook. So, as part of this podcast, we love to tell inspiring stories and stories not only about learning, but growth too. So, when I was young, I had the best idea in the world. “Look at this. Frozen chicken breasts. More heat.”. The specific phrase I said to myself was, “twice the heat will make it cook twice as fast.”.��

Kuma: Yes. Which is not true.��

Zoe: I can tell you- yes, from firsthand experience, my chicken breast came out still frozen in the center but practically burnt on the outside.

Kuma: Yep. Okay, so we’ve chopped our onion and our garlic.��

Stovetop Setup and Oils

Kuma: What we’re gonna do on the stove is you’re gonna take a large stock pot, not a medium or a small one, a large one. Zoe, don’t forget, noodles expand when they’re cooked.��

Zoe: They do! They do! I cannot forget that from my countless amount of times to be like, “Oh, not too many noodles.” All of a sudden, my pot is overflowing with noodles.��

Kuma: Exactly. So, we’re gonna heat this over medium heat.��

Zoe: ����-��ܳ�.��

Kuma: And you’re gonna add oil. So, I personally just use Extra Virgin Olive Oil. For those of you that don’t know, actually, there’s different types of cooking oil, but also within that even more subcategories. So, say you have a Light Virgin Olive Oil, that’s used for salad dressings and sometimes marinades. It really depends on the marinade. But, if we’re talking Extra Virgin Olive Oil, that’s the one you wanna be cooking with. It has a higher smoking point than Light Virgin Olive Oil. Light Virgin Olive Oil, again, is for dressings and marinades, and it has a very low burning point.

Zoe: Ah, so it would burn if you tried to use it.

Kuma: Yes. It’s not the one you wanna use to stir-fry.��

Zoe: Gotcha. The virgin part of olive oil actually means that they don’t strain it too much, or they don’t put the oil through a strainer. So, it’s still got those little bits and pieces of olive in there. It’s really nice. That’s something with Light Virgin Olive Oil too, is that if you try to stir-fry or cook at a very high temperature, not only the oil will start to smoke, but those little bits of olive in there will start to burn, charred, and black, and you don’t want that happening. So, Extra Virgin Olive Oil have a higher smoking point, so it’s better to cook with, huh?��

Kuma: �۱𲹳�.��

Zoe: I’ve always just used vegetable oil, and I have noticed that sometimes a little drizzle of sesame oil is good, but I never cook with straight sesame oil.��

Kuma: No, that one again is also more for marinades or topping.

Zoe: Yeah. Usually, when I’m cooking, I just drizzle a little bit for flavor. But, I always use the vegetable oil, ’cause it’s just so reliable.��

Kuma: Okay. So, let’s get back to the recipe.��

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: We have the pan heated and a way you can tell, if you really want to, is just put your hand over the pot, and you can feel the heat coming up from it. You can also sprinkle water on it. But, again, let’s remember oil and water don’t mix by themselves.��

Zoe: That is correct.��

Kuma: Oil will jump up. So, Zoe, don’t do that… ‘Cause we don’t want you to hurt yourself. ���첹��.��

Sautéing and Heat Lessons

Kuma: So, the oil is heated up. I have the onion and garlic ready to go and we’re gonna add that to the pot, and we’re gonna cook it until it’s brown and translucent.

Zoe: Ooh, okay. Okay. And when it, when you’re cooking the onions and getting that color on them, that browning-��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�…��

Zoe: what’s that process called again?��

Kuma: �����ܳ�é���Բ�?��

Zoe: Oh, no. Where the onion becomes brown. It’s, uh, caramelization.��

Kuma: Caramelization. Thank you.��

Zoe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.��

Kuma: But, that’s over low heat for long periods of time. That’s not what we’re doing right now. We’re just browning. So, it’s sauteing. Okay, you ready?��

Zoe: Oh, absolutely! Let’s hit the pan. And, is that sizzle, the sound you want when it hits the pan?��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: Nice. I remember this one time when I was learning and I was like, “Okay, I got my onions here.” Went to the pan and just like, “Plop.”. You were like, ” Is the stove on?” And I was like, “Yeah, it’s on. I just put the onions in.”. And, you were just like, “Why isn’t it sizzling?” And I’m like, “Oh, I just turned the stove on!”. That’s not great, is it?��

Kuma: No, you want the pan to be preheated before.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: But, here’s the thing, too. If you have it too hot for too long, you’re instantly gonna burn everything.��

Zoe: Especially, ’cause the oil will start to smoke and whatnot too. You don’t want that charred oil, ’cause if you’ve ever gone out to and had a meal from outside and you bite into it and it’s deep-fried, or something. But, then this bitter flavor just permeates through your mouth and nostrils. That’s because some places will actually reuse their frying oil. When that happens that char, that sort of burnt-ness, will permeate throughout the oil. And because it keeps getting used over and over again, it’ll just flavor the oil bitterly. The same thing will happen if you have your pan too hot for too long and start to burn your oil. Your food’s gonna taste bitter, so you don’t want that to happen.

Kuma: Yeah. So, our onions and garlic is kind of starting to sweat a little bit.��

Zoe: ����-��ܳ�.��

Kuma: Which is really nice because onions already contain a lot of liquid, same with garlic, same with a whole bunch of other vegetables.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: So, it’s just kinda extracting the-��

Zoe: You’re releasing the flavor and the moisture.

Kuma: Yeah, the l- the liquid, the water. �۱𲹳�.��

Zoe: And that’s why onions are just so nice. They have a wonderful, complementary, flavor. When you let them sweat, let them just release that flavor. Oh! It flavors the rest of your dish beautifully!��

Kuma: It does! So, we’re gonna let this cook for- Usually, this takes about five minutes.

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: But, watch over it for sure. We don’t wanna leave something cooking by itself in case something goes wrong. Zoe is a “prodigy” of walking away when things are cooking, and then comes back surprised when things are overflowing.��

Zoe: You know what? I meant for that spaghetti to have a crust on the bottom, okay?

Kuma: Are you sure you did?!��

Zoe: Pretty sure I did! It made it as if the spaghetti was its own bowl!��

Kuma: That’s not- appetizing…��

Zoe: I meant to do that. Okay?!��

Kuma: Sure you did. Sure you did.

Budget Cooking Resources

Zoe: But, all these things I learn and these stories, they’re really wonderful. Where did you learn about this one pot dish from?��

Kuma: I think I got it specifically from this website called “Budget Bytes”. For those of you that don’t know, I grew up very poor and a lot of my cooking was kinda just “farmer’s meals”. But, when I started living by myself, at 18; I really had to deep dive into cooking just for myself, as a person, to sustain myself. Budget Bytes is a great website where it shows you budget-friendly meals. So, say you have a budget of $10. It will show you that. It encourages you to use canned ingredients, dry ingredients, don’t skimp on the frozen ingredients either. They’re called ” IQF”, which stands for “individually quick frozen”, and that’s actually a really good way of getting nutrients from fruits and vegetables that are still almost in the prime, ripening stage. You still get a lot of those nutrients that the human body needs to thrive, if you can’t afford to buy fresh fruits and vegetables.

Zoe: Yeah. “IQF”, I always wondered what that meant. I knew it was good, but that’s wonderful to hear. ‘ Cause, with those IQF mixed vegetable bags, sometimes I’m like, “Oh, I don’t know what to use this for.”. Like a can of sweet corn. It’s hard to tell sometimes and be like, “Huh, what can I use all this sweet corn in?”.

Kuma: Oh, you can use it for a lot of things.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: You can use it in stir-fries and stuff like that, soups as well, stews- Zoe really loves making shepherd’s pie, and I really encourage her to use the corn for that.��

Zoe: It’s an easy dish that’s tasty, but very rewarding. It’s one of the first dishes I actually learned.

Kuma: She’s gotten a lot better at that recipe too!��

Zoe: I’ve gotten a lot better, in general. I remember when making salsa for me was taking a can of that sweet corn, mixing it with raw onions and a bowl of tomato soup, like just straight up tomato soup, and calling it salsa!��

Kuma: Did you really do that?��

Zoe: Yeah, a couple times. I was like, “You want some salsa?” And you’re like, “That was horrifying.”��

Kuma: Oh, I don’t remember this! Maybe I blocked it out for a reason!��

Zoe: You might have blocked it out from memory!��

Kuma: Okay.! Okay… So, our onions and our garlic is starting to brown and turn translucent. Oh, lord, I can’t believe you actually did that…

Zoe: I mean, some of the stories you’ll hear on this podcast, you might not believe your ears. But, it all comes from a place of learning. I left home when I was 21. 22 actually, is when I left home and struck out on my own. I had such a sheltered life that I didn’t know how to do, basically, anything. I didn’t know how to cook. Very little experience even cleaning. So, my first forays into cooking were definitely disasters! But, I didn’t let that discourage me. That’s the thing! I really enjoyed it and I didn’t let it discourage me, even when the bottom fell off of my pepper shaker and I was just shaking whole peppercorns into my mashed potatoes. It gave it a nice crunch! Don’t get discouraged, because these resources, like “Budget Bytes”, that provide these recipes, these wonderfully budget-friendly meals and help you use up ingredients that you wouldn’t know how to use otherwise, they’re just fantastic. Puma, isn’t this meal vegetarian? Does Budget Bytes-��

Kuma: It does, yeah.��

Zoe: Oh, nice!��

Kuma: I believe they also do vegan meals as well, and they might even have a way for you to specifically search by an ingredient. So, some websites call it an ingredient index. Say you have an abundance of cooked chicken in a can. Now, cooked chicken in a can sounds gross! But, it’s also a great way of getting protein, and what you can actually do with that very easily is make chicken salad sandwich.��

Zoe: Yeah, yeah, yeah!��

Kuma: Kind of like egg salad sandwich, but chicken salad sandwich with mayo and ketchup… Not ketchup. I mean, if you wanna add ketchup, you can, I guess.

Zoe: A little.��

Kuma: Sriracha, onion, celery, and you serve that on bread with lettuce.��

Zoe: I’ve done that before. I think you’ve served it to me before, and it was really good. I was like, “This was canned chicken? Never had it before, but it sounds scary.” And then I had it, and it was good. And, I think you also thinned out the mayo just a little bit with a touch of lemon juice too, right?

Kuma: Yeah!

Zoe: Yeah, that was good!

Kuma: ���첹��.��

Build the One Pot Sauce

Kuma: So, our onions and our garlic is brown.

Zoe: It sounds different!

Kuma: Yeah! Because, it’s cooked down a little bit so that protein and sugar content is slightly broken down. So, the cellular structure of the onions and garlic has been broken down just a little bit more. What we’re gonna do is now we’re gonna add our stock, our diced tomatoes, and our oregano. So, again, our stock is 1.5 cup stock, a 14.5-ounce can of diced tomatoes, and then about a teaspoon, or two, of oregano. Okay?��

Zoe: Now, hold on a second. I thought we were out of vegetable stock.��

Kuma: We’re gonna make our own.

Zoe: Oh, really?��

Kuma: So, there’s this great thing called “Bouillon”.��

Zoe: ����-��ܳ�.��

Kuma: And, you can actually get it in cubes. But, I’m specifically using the brand, “Better Than Bouillon”, and it’s a seasoned vegetable base.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: I really like it. It’s listed as organic, but it’s made with a lot of ingredients you would randomly find in the kitchen, too. So, it’s a very easy, quick stock you can use-��

Zoe: I’ve had that before. Yeah, and it tastes good! There are other flavors, too, right? Yeah. Like garlic, chicken, and beef.��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: Wonderful. That bouillon always tastes really nice to me.��

Kuma: All right. So, now we’re gonna add the water.��

Zoe: Uh-huh. Whoo!��

Kuma: Which that’s the sound we want!��

Zoe: Yes! That “whoosh!”, right?��

Kuma: Yes. And then I’m gonna do a spoonful of the bouillon into it.��

Zoe: Okay! Nice and flavorful!��

Kuma: We don’t need a whole lot.��

Zoe: It is very, very concentrated. So, if this is your first time having Bouillon, Bouillon comes in as kind of like a powdery, like cube or, right now, “Better Than Bouillon”, it’s more of like a paste. Like a nice moist paste. If you just take like a fork and just dip the tines in and then give it a little taste, you’ll taste how concentrated it is. So, we only really need like a spoonful.��

Kuma: Mm-hmm. And so now we’re also going to add our 14.5 ounces of diced tomato.

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: Okay, ready?��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�!��

Kuma: Now, with cans, in Oregon, there’s a very specific “recycling” for them. So, to recycle these cans you need to; one, wash them out and then also get rid of the lids because those can actually cause harm.��

Zoe: Oh, okay!��

Kuma: So, we can do that after.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: And then we’re gonna add in our diced oregano.

Zoe: Yeah. Now, for some cans too that are in like preservative water or like a brine, you can get rid of those and just give it a quick rinse to get rid of that. These tomatoes are actually in like a tomato juice, right?��

Kuma: Yeah, they’re in their own juice.��

Zoe: Which is good. Yeah, so we’re using the juice from the can.

Kuma: Okay, so we’re mixing all the ingredients in the pot together first. For me, it looks very dark in color and I can see very clearly the onion, garlic, tomatoes because it’s chopped tomatoes, or diced tomatoes in a can, and the seasoning. But, the bouillon is what makes it darker. So, if you’re using a different stock base, it’s gonna be looking a little bit different. But, that’s perfectly okay.

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Add Pasta and Boil

Kuma: So, now what we’re going to do is we’re gonna be adding the noodles…��

Zoe: �ǰ첹��.��

Kuma: And bring this all to a boil.

Zoe: Now, we haven’t pre-cooked our noodles and-��

Kuma: No, you want raw noodles for th- or not raw noodles … dry noodles!��

Zoe: So, raw noodles for this dish particularly, right?��

Kuma: �۱��!��

Zoe: Okie doke!��

Kuma: And, again, we’re doing eight ounces of spaghetti noodles.��

Zoe: ��������.��

Kuma: Now, for this one, it’s better to use spaghetti noodles because they’re slightly thicker than Angel Hair, and Linguini Noodles are a little bit too thick. Now, Zoe-��

Zoe: Yeah?

Kuma: Did you know noodle types actually have a purpose when it comes to cooking?��

Zoe: I did know that, yes!��

Kuma: Okay! So, noodles like these are really good at clinging to the sauce-��

Zoe: Yes!

Kuma: Specifically. Which is really what we want for this.��

Zoe: Different forms of pasta, it’s practically an art form. The different things that they do, the way that they interact with the cooking process. Even something like ravioli, which might not seem like, “Oh, just pop open a can of Chef Boyardee’s Ravioli and pour it in, microwave it, and you got a meal in minutes.”. It’s not just as simple as that, because if you wanna make really good ravioli; there are even processes where you cook it in butter, and have this wonderful golden brown surface. As it starts to get there, just add a little bit of cold butter, and just keep it at that temperature, keep cooking it. Like when you were teaching me and I was like, “Oh, isn’t this how we make risotto?”, and you were like, “Nope! That’s not even close to how you make risotto.”.��

Kuma: Do you wanna tell them that story, or should I?

Zoe: Go for it!��

Kuma: So, for those of you that don’t live with Zoe, we’ve explained she has a very interesting cooking history. I would like to put in perspective that most of her cooking knowledge comes from watching British Chefs.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: Now, I’m not saying all British Chefs are bad. Let’s support Gordon Ramsay, ’cause he’s a wonderful man and a wonderful chef.

Zoe: Yeah! Some British cooking is good.��

Kuma: Well, that’s because they’re not making British food.��

Zoe: That’s true…��

Kuma: They’re making French Cuisine, Spanish, Italian, and all these other recipes from around the world! There’s a reason why a lot of British cooking is not Michelin Star Rated.

Zoe: I suppose so. But, at the same time, there are some great things about British cooking. For those of you out there that love your English Breakfasts, I respect it very deeply! I just find it difficult to have beans in the morning!��

Kuma: Not only that, but it’s Barbecue Beans, right? Baked Barbecue Beans?��

Zoe: It’s some sort of baked beans and then there’s like a toast… I remember the first time that we were reading about it; for me, it was that- I think the Black Sausage?��

Kuma: Yeah, Black Pudding.��

Zoe: Freaked me out a little bit. For you, it was kinda everything else.

Kuma: Yeah, I will admit that. I will fully admit that.��

Zoe: Yeah, but here’s the thing about British Cooking; it’s sort of like a Melting Pot. Similar to how people have thought about America throughout history. A melting pot of many different things and religions and different cultures. So, for the cooking that I, personally, learned was; I picked up a habit of mixing together a lot of things I probably shouldn’t. For instance, salmon pate over toasted bagels. I ended up learning that what I learned as “pate” was not actually “pate”, but some other unholy combination of cooked salmon cream cheese, spring onions, and Tabasco sauce with Horseradish?��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: So, to an extent, if you really enjoy it, you can have that on toasted bagels for breakfast. But, for me, it was kind of like, ” Oh? These things can go together? I better put my favorite combinations together.”. One thing you are gonna learn about food is that things don’t always go together. One night, I was like, “Oh, I’m so hungry.” I made some fortified vegetable soup. “You know what this could use? A little bit of tomato.”. So, add some tomato. “Ah, you know what? This could use a bit of sour, like some lemon juice.”. Add a little lemon juice. “Ooh, a little too strong! Now I better add some potatoes to help thin out the flavor.”, plus, I love potatoes. “Ooh, this needs a little bit more of an actual consistency or an actual solid. Let me put some stale bread in there so I can treat it like a German bread soup. Reuse that bread for something ’cause it’s going stale. I can put it in soup!”. What turned out was one of the most unholy combinations of food I’ve ever created, and one that I unfortunately ended up having to toss away. But-��

Kuma: Um, you’re missing one very important detail, Zoe…

Zoe: No, I don’t wanna share it!��

Kuma: Yes, we’re gonna share it! But, also, as you can hear, our pot is boiling. So, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna turn this to medium low, we’re gonna cover it, and this will cook for about five to ten minutes. The goal is to make a light marinara sauce.

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kitchen Horror Stories

Kuma: Now, the thing with Zoe’s cooking, she likes to give her guide dog, Tucker, the leftovers.��

Zoe: If they’re safe, yes.��

Kuma: Well, as we’ve come to discuss this dish– her weird, nightmare fuel dish– she called Tucker out and held the pot down to him, and what did he do?��

Zoe: I was at the other end of the hallway, crouching down with the pot out, and he walked out of my room, looked at me, stood stock still, for like three seconds, and turned around and walked back into my room and jumped on the bed!

Kuma: So, what does that tell us, Zoe?��

Zoe: He smelled it, he did not like what he smelled. Probably didn’t like what he saw either!��

Kuma: ���油���ٱ���!��

Zoe: ������…��

Kuma: So, we don’t trust Zoe in the kitchen.��

Zoe: What? But, I’m a great chef!��

Kuma: No, you’re not.��

Zoe: I remember this one time I ended up gluing together… Again, we all love all sorts of ways of cooking. But, the way I learned to cook was a lot of mixtures of stuff. I was hungry at home one night, and I was like, “Oh, I could just combine two of my favorite things.”. So, I took like a bowl of, Junior Mints, and I melted them down, then I took like a bowl of cheese and I melted it down, and then I glued together two Hot Pockets with the Junior Mints, and I covered it with the cheese and had it. It was fantastic. Nothing else needs to be said about it. Kuma’s kind of giving me this shocked vibe. I can’t see, but…

Kuma: No comment!

Zoe: It’s all about the learning process. These days, now that I’ve learned so much more about flavor profiles, combinations of things, I really do feel like I can do my original mentor’s, their vision, justice. The ideas of combining together things that actually make sense. Someone thought that mashed potatoes and shepherd’s pie filling would go great together! And, it did. So, it’s all about finding those right combinations. While I may have made mistakes in the past, I think I’m a whole lot better now.��

Kuma: You’ve gotten better, that’s for sure.

Food and Frugal Upbringing

Zoe: But, tell me, how has food influenced your life? Especially learning how to eat cheap and how has that influenced your ideas about nutrition as well?��

Kuma: Well, growing up in a farming family; the mentality was use what you have. I was also raised by a single father. So, a lot of that was “Hamburger Helper Meals”. Poor American single father and Hamburger Helper meals with a mixed vegetable mix thrown in there… Try saying that five times fast.��

Zoe: Mixed vegetable mix, yes.��

Kuma: A frozen vegetable mix, thrown into that, and then a sort of protein added to it. It was kinda like Zoe’s meals, and that’s perfectly okay. But, what my dad very much taught me was he let me name those meals. So, a lot of time, I called it, “Glop Number 27”.��

Zoe: Any particular reason?��

Kuma: No. We numbered it very differently every time. But, it was very much just a way to get me involved in the kitchen.

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: As time went on, he got a little bit more money and we got our own chickens. Now, my father grew up on the farm, as well, but I grew up on a backyard farm. So, what that meant was we had a garden that we worked with. We grew a lot of our own fruits and vegetables that we actually ate. We had chickens. Now, the great thing about chickens is they are also kind of scavengers. So, we could give them a lot of the leftovers, the trash part that we couldn’t eat, like actual roots that were growing in the ground from onions; that little hairy part, nodule at the bottom. Any leftovers that went bad we could give to them. They were very happy, healthy chickens. But, we also would eat those chickens when they got old. So, they would lay eggs. We would use those. You can use eggs for a lot of things. During the summer, spring and summer, chickens lay a lot of eggs, so what can you do?��

Egg Brining Traditions

Kuma: You can actually do a brine to preserve the eggs long term.��

Zoe: ��𲹱�����?��

Kuma: Yes. I can’t remember the exact ratio off the top of my head, but it’s a very, very, long-standing thing people have done for a very long time.��

Zoe: I think in China they call the specific blend that they use and the thing that they call the eggs at the end are 1,000-year-old eggs.

Kuma: �۱𲹳�.��

Food as Love Language

Kuma: Also coming from a farming family, specifically my family, a lot of it is in the South.��

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: In the South, in particular, food is seen as a love language. Specifically, somebody comes into your home, you feed them. It’s part of our thing, it’s what we do, and it’s because a lot of us; poor as fuck. So, what’s something that we can share with people that we have? Food.��

Zoe: Yeah, and our love of food.��

Kuma: Exactly. But, then also if you think about it in history, in American history in particular, multi-generational families. That was a huge thing, so we would always have food. Now we’re less so multi-generational families, which is perfectly fine. That’s okay. But, then you have the Great Depression too, where people didn’t have a lot to eat.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: It was seen, I believe, for a lot of people as a very nice thing to just give somebody else food when they came to the house.��

Zoe: I remember reading Grapes of Wrath in high school.��

Kuma: You know, I never read that.

Zoe: Oh, it’s a very interesting read, but-��

Kuma: ���첹��…��

Zoe: Yeah, for any of you listening that are a little too young to read it or maybe don’t remember it anymore; it’s about a family just doing their best and trying to survive in the Great Depression. But, what are you doing right now with the ingredients?

Prepping Feta Cheese

Kuma: Right now I am taking out the feta cheese.��

Zoe: ���dz�.��

Kuma: I’m gonna be cutting it up into pieces.��

Zoe: And, no fancy knife cuts, right? Just nice small pieces?��

Kuma: Yeah, it just wants to be kinda like crumbled vibes. We’re not mashing it.

Zoe: �Ҵdzٳ���.��

Kuma: Feta’s a very crumbly cheese in general. It’s seen as a softer cheese.��

Zoe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.��

Kuma: That’s perfectly okay too.��

Zoe: Right now we’ve got a block of cheese, so if you had like a block of cheese, you could just pull out like a box grater or like just a grater-��

Kuma: ����…��

Zoe: You can’t use that for these? ��𲹱�����?��

Kuma: It would not go through the grooves of it.��

Zoe: ����.��

Kuma: So, you can use a knife to chop it or your fingers.��

Zoe: I’ve always used like a grater to shred Parmesan, mozzarella, like-��

Kuma: So, Parmesan’s a very soft cheese as well. Well, not Parmesan- Mozzarella. Parmesan is a harder cheese, so you can actually shred it, but Mozzarella is an incredibly soft cheese.��

Zoe: �Ҵdzٳ���.��

Kuma: So, you wanna use a knife on that one.��

Zoe: Gotcha, yeah. It’s just more efficient and the cheese comes out better, is that right?��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: Gotcha. Hey, you learn something new each day. It’s always nice to have a little bit of shredded cheese. ‘Cause you can freeze it too, right?��

Kuma: Yes, you can.��

Zoe: You and I have just taken a bag out of the freezer and thawed it a little bit, and then just whenever we wanna use it, like a lasagna soup, our homemade enchiladas, or anything like that, just a little bit of shredded cheese. Oh, perfection! Or grilled cheese even.��

Checking the Pot

Kuma: Okay, about 10 minutes have elapsed.��

Zoe: �龱�����.��

Kuma: So, what we’re going to do is we’re gonna take off that lid and we’re gonna look at our pot.��

Zoe: How does it look and how does it smell?��

Kuma: Ooh! It looks very nice! My noodles actually stuck to the bottom a little bit. So, you know what that means is I’m gonna add a little bit more water.��

Zoe: Water or oil?��

Kuma: �²��ٱ��.��

Zoe: Okay. ‘Cause I remember that if we’re cooking spaghetti, the spaghetti noodles start sticking to each other while they’re boiling, just a touch of oil will really help them be their own little singular noodles and they’ll not stick to each other. So, in this pot, in particular, when they’re cooking down with other ingredients just a touch of cold water will prevent them from sticking to the bottom?��

Kuma: It helps actually with this process called, “deglazing”. It just means I also had the pan on a little bit too high as well. Which is perfectly okay. Again, I make mistakes in the kitchen too. I’m not saying everyone’s perfect in the kitchen.��

Zoe: Oh, everyone makes mistakes and it’s all about the learning process. It’s about learning how to cook, eating happier, healthier, and being prouder of yourself.

Kuma: But, we did get that light marinara sauce we were going for.��

Zoe: Ooh, very nice, especially with those diced tomatoes.��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: Oh, delicious! You could do things with fresh tomatoes or fresh ingredients, but here we’re just using canned, like a can of diced tomatoes.��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Zoe: And it’s working out wonderfully, huh?

Kuma: Yes, it is!��

Zoe: Yeah, so if you’ve got canned ingredients that you’re not using or that you don’t how to know how to use; I hope this podcast as a whole gives you ideas.��

Kuma: Okay. Now what we’re gonna do is you can heat the pan to low if your noodles didn’t stick to the bottom. I, personally, just turned off the pan.��

Spinach and Toppings

Kuma: I’m gonna add the spinach.��

Zoe: Ooh, okay. And again, spinach cooks really fast, right? How long do you think you’ll have the spinach in there?��

Kuma: Oh, it’ll only be a few minutes before it’s fully wilted.��

Zoe: Oh, okay!��

Kuma: You don’t even need to do a whole lot. I’m just gonna put the lid back on it. Let that sit.

Zoe: What do you think you’re going to garnish the soup with? ‘Cause I know a lot of people like cilantro or sour cream on their soups, but this doesn’t seem like the soup for that.��

Kuma: Well, it’s not really a soup. It’s just a pasta dish.��

Zoe: Yeah, a pasta dish. Sorry.��

Kuma: So, we’re gonna top with that feta cheese.

Zoe: Uh-huh.

Kuma: And then we’re also going to top with Kalamata olives.��

Zoe: ���dz�.��

Kuma: Now, Kalamata Olives are olives that are brined. So, they have a very particular salty taste. They’re very delicious. If you’re like me, who loves a good cheese olive mix, I love to go to the deli at the store and peruse their brined olive selection and then their fancy cheese selection.��

Zoe: What was that fancy cheese you got at- What was it? Grocery Outlet? And you got this amazing cheese one time.��

Kuma: Well, it was at Grocery Outlet, and it was a “French Cheese”. It was a very soft dessert cheese, with lemon in it.��

Zoe: Was there espresso, lavender, and lemon?��

Kuma: Oh, there was another one too. Yeah, that one was an espresso lavender goat cheese roll.

Zoe: Oh, my gosh.��

Kuma: So, it was lavender that was finely chopped and mixed into the cheese, and then the roll of goat cheese was rolled in espresso. So, it had a very strong flavor, but it was very, very nice as well.��

Zoe: I didn’t know cheese could relax me. This here is our nice feta cheese with our Kalamata Olives. What do you think? Would a little bit of fresh mint help it any?��

Kuma: I think a little bit of fresh mint would go a long way in this actually.��

Zoe: Ooh, lovely. What did we just buy yesterday? I think we went to this lovely shopping center in Portland on 82nd, called “Fubonn”, they had absolutely wonderful ingredients.��

Kuma: It did.��

Zoe: Granted, I didn’t know that eating frog legs was a thing, or snails. But, hey, now I know!��

Kuma: Well, we can do some adventure cooking later in the future if you want.��

Zoe: True.

Kuma: As you know, frog legs are considered somewhat of a delicacy, depending on the region and who you’re talking to.��

Zoe: Was the meat “bouncy”? I’m sorry I said that!��

Kuma: �ܴDZ�.��

Zoe: I’m so sorry.��

Kuma: Zoe, Zoe, Zoe.

Zoe: It doesn’t sound like a soup or a stew right now. It really does sound like you’re mixing up and stirring the pasta, getting all those ingredients combined, all those flavors.��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Chickpeas and Olives

Kuma: So, now what I’m going to do is I’m going to add in the chickpeas.��

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: I believe I said about 14.5 ounces. So, like one can.

Zoe: About that much and they’re already cooked, so they’re softer, right?��

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: So, we don’t wanna really mix too hard or we’ll mash the peas.��

Kuma: Oh, that’s perfectly okay too, actually.��

Zoe: Yeah. I remember this one time I had poured in actual sweet peas. I was mixing it and I was like, “Oh, no, it needs more time to cook,”. So, I was like, stir, stir, stir, stir! I stir very vigorously sometimes. Then I was like, “Where are my peas? There are no peas in here. Oh, no, they just mashed into the food.”��

Kuma: Did you really do that?��

Zoe: Yeah, with the shepherd’s pie that one time. Do you remember?��

Kuma: No, I don’t!��

Zoe: Yeah! At least the corn didn’t dissolve.��

Kuma: Oh, goodness! So, we got fresh mint. What I’m doing is I’m just tearing off just a tiny little bit of the leaves and shredding it with my fingers. But, also, here’s the thing about fresh mint; it’s a very subtle flavor, so it’s really good in fresh salads. But, I’m using it more as just a small topping right now.

Zoe: And fresh mint doesn’t taste like mint toothpaste or anything.��

Kuma: No, it does not. It’s very, very good to make tea with.��

Zoe: ���dz�.��

Kuma: So, that’s why I got it, was I wanted to use it for tea. But, you can use mint in a lot of things too; as a light refresher to it all. Now, what I’m gonna do is, this is nice and all mixed up. I’m going to add the Kalamata Olives to it.

Zoe: Okay. These are Kalamata olives and the ones that we have are already in their own brine. Is that right?��

Kuma: Mm-hmm. And, they’re pitted. So, Olive Pits, the seeds, they’re stone fruit. So, they’re very, very solid. Kinda like how apricots, and nectarines, and plums have that hard pit.

Zoe: Or, like a cherry or avocado?��

Kuma: Yeah. So, olives are like that too. You don’t need a whole lot of Kalamata Olives too. Let’s be real, Kalamata olives have a very strong salty taste, kinda like capers. So, you need to be very mindful about how many you add.��

Zoe: I assume that they’re a nice snack too, right?

Kuma: Oh, yes!

Zoe: ‘Cause like a snack-��

Kuma: If you like things like that, like I do, yes!��

Zoe: Like that, plus some cheese. Maybe wrap it up in like a tortilla, or something.��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Zoe: Very easy, right? ‘Cause a snack is small but it should be bursting with flavor!��

Kuma: Don’t add that to a tortilla…��

Zoe: Don’t add that to a tortilla?

Kuma: No.

Zoe: That’s my mind thinking of combinations that I think would be good in theory. But, I’m not sure how it would could be good IRL.��

Kuma: Okay. So, I’ve added some feta. Gonna mix it around.

Zoe: What about flatbread?��

Kuma: Yeah, you could do flatbread.��

Zoe: Yeah, flatbread with olive, tomato, and cheese. Oh, that sounds good. Or, like a pita pocket-��

Kuma: That sounds more like a girl dinner, I’ll be honest.��

Zoe: Ooh, that sounds like a great snack. Stick it together with a toothpick, and then you gently grill it, or put it on the pan for a little bit.

Kuma: ���첹��.��

Serving and First Taste

Kuma: Now we’re gonna serve it!��

Zoe: Let us serve!��

Kuma: Can you get a bowl, please?��

Zoe: Oh, absolutely! I’ll get two bowls! One for you and one for me!��

Kuma: Did you break that bowl?��

Zoe: No! No! I didn’t drop a bowl!��

Kuma: Okay-

Zoe: I dropped something else! Nothing appears to be broken.��

Kuma: Okay, so you will need tongs for this.��

Zoe: ���첹��.��

Kuma: The classic, double-check the tongs still work.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�!��

Kuma: You click it! I mean, tongs always work unless they don’t. But, it feels like the classic move. Okay. So, those tomatoes should add a little bit of acidity to it, which should really help bring out a lot of that flavor in it as well.��

Zoe: ���DZ������.��

Kuma: Let me get you some garbanzos and, uh-��

Zoe: I can’t wait to taste it! Because, this seems so simple and we made it in about 45 minutes-

Kuma: it takes less than that.

Zoe: Yeah, ’cause we’ve been talking so much and I’ve been distracting you and trying my best to help. But, dropping things along the way! But, it’s so simple and the ingredients are so easy to get, and it’s vegetarian too. I’m so excited! Aren’t those lovely tongs from IKEA?��

Kuma: Uh… No.��

Zoe: I know that, that time we went to IKEA we got lots of stuff. I got potato slicer from there, actually! But, they do have lots of pretty affordable cooking equipment that’s of decent quality as well, right?

Kuma: �۱��.��

Zoe: Yeah. So, if you’re not sure where to start you can grab a decent pan and some knives and spoons, tongs, or whatnot. In reality, like any metal with an edge, you can use as a knife. You just do your best with what you’ve got in the kitchen. That’s what it’s all about. So, we’ll sit down to eat. I’d just like to ask you a few more questions…

Kuma: Well, would you like to try the first bite?��

Zoe: Oh, absolutely! It’s still nice and piping hot! So, yeah, I’d just like to ask you a few questions while we enjoy our meal.��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Zoe: How does it smell?��

Kuma: Tomatoey, so a bit of that acidity with the Kalamata Olives. Does it need more salt or pepper? Plus, this is also a great meal to pack for lunch.��

Zoe: Yeah. I don’t think it needs more salt and pepper. Maybe just a touch of pepper. But, it almost tastes like a spaghetti, but really leveled up!��

Kuma: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: ‘Cause of the vegetables. ‘Cause we basically made our own sauce. That spinach too, that wonderful, fresh flavor of the spinach, the saltiness of the olives to balance everything out. This is my first time doing this dish and tasting it. I would absolutely do it again!��

Cooking and Mental Health

Zoe: So, Kuma, I did wanna ask; because, I know that you and I have both had a lot of struggles with mental health in our life as well. For you, if you’re okay sharing, how does cooking help you overcome those struggles in life? ‘Cause, for me, I consider it very much. Mental health is extremely important. Depression and CPTSD are really crippling things that can basically be really disabling as well. How does cooking help you with those things in your life, or how has your life shaped around those ideas? Or how do you overcome those disabilities?��

Kuma: Okay. Well, cooking is a skill that really has been, for humanity, taught through family to child, or loved one to child. Sometimes it’s born out of necessity of the kid not knowing how to cook themselves, they don’t have anyone to teach them, and they just try it by themselves. So, cooking is about survival, realistically, but there’s also an art involved in it too, that allows a lot of creativity, as well. Zoe loves doing creativity with her cooking, and sometimes it works. Most of the time it does not. For me, some of that creativity comes down to a little bit of Oregon classics; which is popcorn with a little bit of oil and nutritional yeast?

Zoe: It’s good!��

Kuma: It’s an Oregon classic! I will admit that through and through. Other times too, I will do like a sunny side up egg over leftover rice with soy sauce over it.��

Zoe: That sounds good.��

Kuma: And that’s just like a really quick, easy breakfast I can make. Part of cooking with mental health stuff is, it’s how I show people I love them. Because, I’m still poor as a person. We’re in this economy where if you’re not making like over $100,000, you are still one paycheck away from losing everything. Part of the things I can do to show the people I do love them is making food for them, and I love making bread. I love going up to a friend and be like, “I made you a loaf of bread. Will you try it for me and tell you what you think?”. Because, sometimes it’ll be a new bread recipe, and they love it because they know I care for them, they know I can give this to them, and it’s made with a lot of love in it. But, if I also wanna get into the nitty-gritty about the psychology and the therapeutic part of it, there’s this thing called, “Somatic Therapy”. Which is about, for a lot of people who have trauma, a good way of processing feelings if we haven’t been taught how to express feelings, or stuff like that, is learning how to move. It helps move those feelings through our body. For me, personally, sometimes I will just get on the phone with a best friend and chop onions for an hour. The onions will make me cry and that’ll help if I need to cry. But, also, it’s just a nice way of I’m doing something else and it’s very nice to just get my body moving. Or, I’ll go to the gym and stuff like that. But, cooking too is, in and of itself, Somatic Therapy.

Zoe: That’s true and, not only that, those onions that you chop you can freeze for later, right?��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Zoe: Yeah. Those vegetables, if you have too many carrots or any other things, you can always just freeze them for later, ’cause sometimes we’re just too tired. For me, sometimes, a really, really deep slump will hit me and I’m like, “Ugh, I just don’t have the energy to chop like onions, or tomatoes, carrots.”. I can just pull out those frozen ingredients and use them, right?��

Kuma: Yep! Granted, if you want something with a very strong crunch in it, you might wanna go with something fresh instead of frozen. But, that’s perfectly fine too. There’s no judgment in cooking whatsoever. Unless you’re Zoe making one of her, “Disaster Meals”.��

Zoe: “Disaster Meals” is a very light way of putting it. Remember that time, I was like, ” Oh, I’ve never had Vienna sausages before!”, and, without washing the brine off, put them into the rice in a rice cooker, and boiled it all together? I was like, “Where are my sausages? Oh, they dissolved into the rice.” That’s about right.��

Kuma: Yes. But, I will also say, folks, please don’t use canned spinach. This is just a personal tip, but don’t use canned spinach. Unless that’s all you can get, no judgment. But, I’m just saying it has a very briny flavor that doesn’t wash away.

Zoe: I mean, we’d all like to be Popeye with his magnificent muscles on a deep level. But, canned spinach, it dissolves if you try to cook with it. ‘Cause, as you saw here with our fresh spinach, it wilted really fast. The spinach is nice and soft in this bowl, and it has wonderful flavor. But, that brine, the preservatives in those canned spinach, it’ll just dissolve pretty much. I found it very hard to use canned spinach and canned collard greens personally.��

Kuma: Yeah, you can use frozen or fresh.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�.��

Kuma: But, I’m just saying, canned spinach is not-��

Zoe: It’s not the way to go?

Kuma: No, it’s not. But, that’s okay. To each their own.��

Zoe: To each their own, for sure. Does this feel like a meal that you could actually serve to someone and show them as a love language that you care?��

Kuma: Yeah! So, here’s the thing about this meal, is it’s really quick and easy. If you really want low effort too and if you’re just not feeling it, or you’re sick, and somebody you care about is also sick and you live together; this is a really good recipe to make for that too. ‘Cause, it has a lot of those nutrients that the human body needs. We have a lot of iron and fiber from the chickpeas. Hey, guess what? People need fiber.��

Zoe: Yes, they do.��

Kuma: Eating beans is actually very good for you. Then you have those tomatoes, onion, garlic- you have all these wonderful ingredients in there if you just use the right proportions to mix it all together. I would serve this to somebody. Pretty sure I have served this to a family member, and they were very happy with it.

Zoe: You have now!��

Kuma: Well, a different family member. You know what I mean!��

Zoe: I know what you mean. But, yeah. Beans, they do have good fiber, so I will never stop trying to get you to eat an English breakfast.��

Kuma: I would rather die.��

Zoe: Ah, sadness. Truly.��

Kuma: But, yes.��

Quick Meals Wisdom

Zoe: The last question I have for you here; you said quick and easy, but a big theme on our podcast is just because it’s quick and easy doesn’t mean that it’s bad or that simple equates to bad. When was the first time, or what’s the first experience that you can think of that really taught you that, even when making something with your hands, having it be quick and easy doesn’t make it bad at all? It can make it sometimes the most fabulous. Because, for me, while you’re thinking about that question; we’ve come back to a few times, but the shepherd’s pie was the third recipe I learned how to make and considering cooking bacon in the oven as a recipe.��

Kuma: Well, do you remember how I make mac and cheese?

Zoe: For context, I’ve made mac and cheese before. Like with Kraft Mac and Cheese, and it always turns out horrid.��

Kuma: Well, you make mac and cheese in a very particular way. The way I’m talking about, for me, is even with Kraft Mac and Cheese, that boxed mac and cheese, I love that. I grew up on that. So, what I do is I’ll cook the pasta. I make the sauce, but I also throw in onion and garlic powder and a ton of pepper into it, too. Maybe I’ll add like a little bit of some spicy kick to that sauce, like sriracha or something, to make it just a touch spicy.��

Zoe: Or, cayenne.��

Kuma: So, for me, that’s still good. Even if some people see it as poor person’s Mac and Cheese. Because, cheese can be expensive.��

Zoe: �۱𲹳�!��

Kuma: Cheese can be expensive! It’s still a good way of turning something into its own. And, side note, you can also make Baked Mac and Cheese with that Kraft Mac and Cheese.��

Zoe: Oh! First time you served me that, I was in food heaven.

Kuma: Yes, you were very happy.

Zoe: ‘Cause, that’s one thing is you’ll find your own particular niche, your own particular touch for things. When I make my mac and cheese, to preface, I’ve made like actual mac and cheese with like actual cheese once and I used a lot of cheese. So, I get where Kuma’s coming from, but it was good. My mac and cheese were like those like boxed things. I never add anything. It’s just like the water, the sauce packet, the macaroni. Maybe, I’ll add like some onion in there. One time I added potato; did not work. And, one time I added bacon; that did help. But, it was just nowhere near as good as your mac and cheese, Kuma. It feels so simple and easy, but there’s still so much room to improve and so much depth that you can really get to when cooking. So, I’m just really, really impressed. I am so thankful that you’ve come to share your recipe with us today. I’m really honored that you would share your experience, your growth, your lessons about learning how to cook, and overcome adversity as well. Do you have any final words for our viewers, aside from the fact that this dish is positively, mind-blowingly, amazingly good?��

Kuma: �۱𲹳�!��

Budget Food Resources

Kuma: So, if you’re broke, people tend to think of food pantries as the really destitute go to. That is true. The food pantry is for people who can’t afford to buy food.

Zoe: There’s a lot of built-in stigma in that.��

Kuma: But, it’s also perfectly okay to go to food pantries. I survived off of food pantries in college. My college had a food pantry. I went to that on a weekly basis. I was on a first name basis with the people who ran it. They were very kind! They had a lot of fresh vegetables from the local college garden too. Then I also went to Catholic Community Centers. Now, I’m not Catholic, but that was where I could, back home, find food pantries outside of my college; through the Catholic Community Services.��

Zoe: No matter who we are, people are willing to help, right?��

Kuma: Yes. I can find a lot of stuff there, and you can find a lot of stuff at food pantries that we don’t always think of. Also The Dollar Tree too; The Dollar Tree has a wonderful selection of spices. But, we’re also in Oregon, so we have WinCo, and WinCo has a lot of great spices too in their bulk section. Now, bulk shopping is a great way to buy things.��

Zoe: Yeah, Soy Sauce, Garam Masala for my curries.

Kuma: You can also buy pounds and pounds of rice or beans or flour or seasonings for very low, in the bulk section. That’s the purpose of the bulk section. You can also get dried fruit. I have a jar of dried raisins, so I can add that into pancakes or cereal in the morning as well, or into granola bars.

Zoe: Dried mushrooms?��

Kuma: Yeah, dried mushrooms too. �۱𲹳�.��

Zoe: Yeah. ‘Cause we got some, and you can just rehydrate them and use them in your cooking too. It’s great. There are so many wonderful things, like beans that you can cook and freeze for later, or vegetables, even rice that you can cook, put into the fridge. If you need to refresh it, just run it under a little bit of cold water.��

Kuma: �ѳ�-�󳾳�!��

Zoe: Stale bread even! One trick that I learned was you can actually pour a little bit of water over it, and then put it in the oven and bake it. Now you do want to tent it in foil, but you wanna bake it, and it will rehydrate the bread and bring it back to life. Same with tortilla chips. If you’ve got some stale tortilla chips, if you bake them it dehydrates them and gets them nice and crispy again. Just on a low heat. We don’t wanna actually cook them on a high heat.��

Kuma: Yeah. All right.��

Signing Off Credits

Kuma: Well, how about we sign off and go eat our lovely dinner?��

Zoe: Sounds like a plan. I’ve been nibbling at it, ’cause I just can’t resist. So, that being said, Kuma, go ahead and sign off.��

Kuma: Good night, everybody. I hope you have a glorious time cooking and enjoy yourselves!

Zoe: �ұ��ǰ����dzܲ�!��

Outro

Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!. ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at pcc.edu/dca. This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC Multimedia Department. We air new episodes on our , our Spotify channel, , and .��

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Miri Newman

Show Introduction

Kylo: You are listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk!, is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, on , and

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Introducing the Guest

Miri: Thank you for tuning in to Let’s Talk! Today I have with me the author of , and their newest book, . Go ahead and introduce yourself, your history with creation and art.

Sydney: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be chatting with you today. So my name is Sydney, I use they/them pronouns, and I am a young adult author who is originally from Seattle and currently living in Portland, Oregon.��

Miri: Thank you. So, how long have you wanted to be a writer, and what were your main goals as an artist when you were, you know, up and coming?

Sydney: Yeah, so my mom loves to tell the story of before I could read when I was like two or three, I would take picture books and make up stories just based on the illustrations. And so I’ve always been a storyteller of sorts, but I didn’t really want to become a writer until I was about 16. Between the ages of like, 12 and 16, I was writing fan fiction a lot and having a lot of fun with that creativity. But after I became disabled at about 14 and then COVID hit shortly after, I started reading a lot to pass the time. And I wasn’t really seeing myself represented in terms of disability rep in books until I read a novel called that has a Deaf love interest. And that was one of the first times I felt represented on page, and that sort of sparked the inspiration for me to share some of my own stories and experiences through novels.��

How Disabilities Influence Creation

Miri: How has your experiences with your disabilities influenced your art?

Sydney: It has influenced my art in so many ways. It’s, it’s really hard for me to separate my art from my disabled identities because they’re so closely connected. I think one of the biggest things is I have learned to advocate for myself a lot more. A lot of the time in publishing there are very tight deadlines, and sometimes I’m just not able to meet those. I used to have a lot of anxiety around speaking up, or asking for more time, or accommodations, and I’ve really learned to be more confident in that. I think also a lot of the time, the advice when I was first starting to get into writing heavy duty, a lot of people would say, “Try to write every day, whether it’s one word or a thousand.” And unfortunately, that didn’t work for me personally due to fluctuating energy levels and disabilities. So really sort of carving my own path and finding out what works the best for me is still an ongoing process because every book is different. Every day is a little different for me, but those are probably the main things that influence my creation.��

Miri: Yeah, so you mentioned the – in the publishing process, the signing process, all that stuff – that it is very fast-paced and very impatient. How, how does being disabled affect your ability to meet deadlines and even just how you approach a new project when it comes to deadlines?

Sydney: I have very open communication with my editor and also my agent. Sometimes I’ll have my agent jump in to express something, or help me set a certain boundary, but in general, it is been kind of a recent development that I have sort of become okay with my projects potentially getting out into the world and on shelves later if I can’t meet certain deadlines. But sort of accepting that because I want to be able to enjoy the process and not negatively impact my own health and mental wellbeing to meet a deadline. So I still obviously try to hit all my deadlines, but have sort of learned that I won’t be able to hit every deadline every time, and however that affects the process, I’m kind of okay with at this point.

Miri: Yeah, I think that’s something that comes up in a lot of our conversations with people. Um, just in any sort of work, you know. Work takes energy, work takes deadlines. There’s usually a lot of pressure to do the thing or get fired. And for people with disabilities that could be particularly difficult. So what was it like when you were first getting signed, knowing that this would be something that most other authors wouldn’t have to face? Like did you go into it with that at the front of your approach, or did you have to like kind of back off and pretend that you were less disabled?��

Sydney: A little bit of both. I think when I signed with my first agent, I had no idea what I was in for.��

Miri: And you were, you were how old when you signed with your first book?��

Sydney: 18. So I was, yeah,��

Miri: That’s so young!

Sydney: Still very young and learning about the industry and I ended up not staying with that agent for very long, ’cause we had some accessibility issues and whatnot. But my second agent, I felt a lot more prepared and I sort of understood the industry a little bit more. And when it came to getting publishing contracts, nothing can really prepare you for when you actually are with a publisher. It gets very hectic, very fast.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Sydney: But again, just sort of setting boundaries, and really learning to advocate for myself. With my first book, I didn’t do that as much because again, I was still learning the process and learning certain things that were expected of me as an author. But along the way, I have gotten a lot more confident and a lot… a lot more comfortable approaching my publisher with, “Hey, I need more time,” or whatever the situation is. And they have been great about accommodation so far, which I’ve been very lucky.��

Miri: I’m very glad to hear that. I know that this is not an industry that’s easy for anybody, so��

Sydney: No.��

Miri: Having people who are willing to provide accommodation is good to hear.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: All of your books involve a protagonist living with some form of disability. Why is that important for you to include? You mentioned not seeing yourself until, Kind Of An Epic Love Story represented in fiction. So why is that important for you and to, to include, and how does that affect your outlining and plotting process?��

Sydney: Specifically, I write books for teenagers and those formative years are so important to see yourself represented and see a diverse world and experiences. For me, that feeling when I read this Deaf love interest, I’m always sort of chasing that and trying to recreate it in my own books. Because I would just love for people to have that same sort of sensation of, “Okay, I’m not alone. I’m not the only one who experiences X, Y, Z.” It’s also important for able-bodied or non marginalized readers to learn a little bit more about a perspective they might not have considered before. I’ve had so many people reach out to me and say, “I am hearing,” or “I’m not disabled, but I really want to learn sign language now,” or, “I have learned so much about, you know, what hard of hearing people experience, thank you for writing this.” And those kind of messages are so important to me because it feels like my work is making even the tiniest little bit of a difference in, you know, making the world more accessible. And��

Miri: Or a lot of a difference, it seems like, to a lot of people.��

Sydney: Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully. And sort of on the flip side of that, the outlining and process.��

Miri: Yeah, when you’re planning a new book, will you go in with a character already in mind and write it around the character and their ability?

Sydney: Sometimes, yeah, it, it definitely is a little different for every book. Sometimes the story comes first and then the characters come. With my first two books, right off the bat, I knew that they were gonna have Deaf rep, and that was sort of one of the main areas of representation in those books. For my third book, which I’m currently editing, the story concept came first, and once I had the characters and the sort of plot and setting in mind, I looked at it and I said, okay, what disabilities can I slot in here? Which ones make sense for the story and the characters? And I’m exploring different aspects of my own disabled identity in this third book that I’m very excited about. But it’s always a fine line of making sure the disability rep is always there in the book and it’s not sort of dropping off and then a hundred pages later you’re like, oh yeah, the character’s Deaf, or whatever the situation is. But also not going too overboard with it and sort of beating readers over the head with disability rep. I want it to feel very organic. I want it to feel like you’re just reading this person’s story, and you’re not necessarily, you know, sitting down and reading a textbook, but you’re still sort of getting educational values in there.��

Miri: Tell us a little bit about your first book. The Loudest Silence, which came out two years ago.��

Sydney: Yes. Yeah. So The Loudest Silence is a dual-POV, Young Adult Contemporary. It is a platonic love story, which is always so fun to explore other facets of love that aren’t romantic. It features a character who had just recently lost her hearing, and she is a musician, and so the loss of sound is huge to her, and she’s not sure how she can go forward and pursue being a musician. And then another character who is a soccer captain with generalized anxiety disorder, who actually hates soccer. He doesn’t want to play soccer. He really wants to be on Broadway. And so they both have these connections to music that they’re trying to figure out how they can pursue it, and they end up forming this sort of unlikely songwriting partnership slash friendship. And that was very largely based on my own experience losing a significant amount of my hearing when I was 14. At the time I wanted to become a musician in the future, and reconnecting to music and sound was really tricky, but it was also really fun and interesting in certain ways. Getting to share some of that experience in The Loudest Silence was really fun.��

Miri: So, something that readers of your book might notice is on the cover, your protagonist is singing into a microphone, but with her other hand it is up against her, her throat. Tell us about that. Because that’s, I don’t think something that anyone would be familiar with outside of, outside of having seen it before.��

Sydney: Yeah, that is one of my favorite details of the cover. When I was taking vocal lessons after I lost my hearing, I went through several vocal coaches who felt like they couldn’t work with me because I was hard of hearing. And I finally found this vocal coach who was absolutely incredible, and we came up with so many tools for me to be able to learn pieces and sing again. That was mostly based off vibration, so a lot of it would be, I would have my hands on the vocal coach’s throat to learn what the pitch is supposed to feel like, and then I would mimic that on my own throat, and sort of match the vibrations instead of matching the sound, because I couldn’t necessarily hear all of the actual pitches. I incorporated that into the main character in The Loudest Silence because I had never heard of that technique before. My vocal coach and I kind of made it up. I don’t know if that’s a real thing out there somewhere, but it was so interesting for me to learn to reconnect to music in that way, that I really wanted to incorporate that representation into the book.��

Miri: Yeah, absolutely. I come from a music background of my own. Never a singer. I’m a horrible singer, uh, mostly from the musical side. But, uh, you know, I came into audio from the accessibility perspective and had also never seen something like that. And I just think that’s a super cool thing to have exist out in the world that a lot of people wouldn’t know about. Your sophomore book just released last month, as of recording. Tell us about that. What is that about, and what was the process behind the creation of that story?��

Sydney: Yeah, so my sophomore novel is called Someone to Daydream About, and it follows a Deaf and demi-romantic teenager who dreams of renovating her family’s rundown Deaf center and making a positive impact on her beloved Deaf community. But, unfortunately, they don’t have the resources to do that until she gets a job offer from the older brother of one of her students who’s in the process of losing her hearing. And the older brother of this student is a world famous pop star. And he offers to take the main character on tour with him so he can learn sign language for his little sister, and she can also earn the money needed to save her Deaf center. So it’s this really sort of unlikely love story between a Deaf girl and a boy whose entire world and career revolves around sound and music, and that juxtaposition was really, really fun for me to explore. It actually started as a fan fiction back, like I said, when I was like 12 or 13. And I stumbled across my old AO3 account one day, like randomly.

Miri: Oh, that’s always an exciting feeling. I do that every once in a while. I’ll see. I’m like, who? Whoops, forget about this. Yeah. For those who don’t know, that’s , which is a fan fanfiction hosting website.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: No longer in beta.��

Sydney: I know, right? I’m like, wow. It’s some exciting news.

Miri: They’re like, “April Fools, were not in beta, but also were actually not in beta.”

Sydney: Um, and at that point I had already written my first book and I was looking for another spark of inspiration for writing my second book, and came across as old fan fiction and completely reinvented it and made it into someone to daydream about.��

Miri: Nice. So along with the themes of disabilities in your writing, there’s also a heavy emphasis on the theme of collaboration and cooperation and learning from other people’s experiences. Why is that something that you emphasize putting into your books, and where did that come from?��

Sydney: I think that my own experiences of making so many incredible friends who have disabilities, or are queer in ways that I am not, and learning about their experiences, I felt has made me a better ally to other disabled experiences. And sharing those themes in my book is really important. I think that even if you don’t necessarily identify with a disability or a queer identity in one of my books, I’ve gotten a lot of feedback from people who say that, “I’m not Deaf, but I have epilepsy,” or whatever it is. And they can sort of relate to the overarching theme of sometimes feeling kind of othered, or like you are existing in a world that is not made for you. And so exploring those themes and showing that even if you are disabled yourself, you can still learn about other people’s disabilities and become a better ally in general. I, myself, have learned that in so many ways. By reading and making friends, and even members of my own family, I’ve learned a lot. And so incorporating that is really important to me.��

Miri: Yeah, I was interviewing someone a couple days ago and one of the things that they said in their interview is, “When you meet one disabled person, you’ve met one disabled person.”

Sydney: Yes, exactly.��

Miri: So that theme echoes in your, in your writing. So what is the writing process for you? Like just you sit down at your computer, your typewriter, and then…?

Sydney: I’m not that cool. I wish! I wish I was a typewriter author. I think they’re so fun. Um, yeah, my process shifts a little bit for every book. For my first one, I just sat down and I wrote it. And what was originally written versus what got published was vastly different. That went through so many big changes. For Someone To Daydream Dream About, I actually sat down and I plotted chapter by chapter. I was like, okay, I need to know where this is going so I don’t rewrite the full thing later, like I did with my debut, but it really does shift. For me, when I’m first conceptualizing an idea, what is sort of an indicator for me that it’s going to pan out is if I have the beginning and the end. That’s where I usually start for every one of my novels, is I know where it starts, where the character starts, emotionally, physically, mentally, where the plot starts, and then the end, and then I fill everything in through the plotting process. And sometimes it’s more difficult than other times to figure out moving parts or side characters, or incorporating the disability rep. But I always have my sort of goalposts of the beginning and the end. And I oftentimes will have brainstorming sessions with my author friends, or my editor, or my agent. If I’m stuck on, I don’t know what the middle is, I know what the end is. I don’t know how to get to the end, or��

Miri: Yeah, right?��

Sydney: A certain plot device that is giving me trouble and just trying to be very collaborative with it. In the beginning, I felt like I had to be perfect all the time, and everything I wrote had to be polished like right away. And that has changed so much. Now I will send something to my editor and be like, girl, I don’t know how to fix this. Help me. And so I think you learn to be less guarded through the process.��

Miri: Yeah. So how long from sitting down day one and doing the plotting to a finished book do you have, and then how long between sitting down with the finished first draft and actually, you know, sitting at the debut signing at the bookstore.

Sydney: Yeah, so it depends. I feel like all my answers are “it depends.”��

Miri: I mean, everything is “it depends.” The world is, you know, full of shades of gray.��

Sydney: Yes. I mean, my debut I wrote in a month, but like I said.

Miri: Had to completely rewrite it?��

Sydney: Yes. Um, my second book, it, I think I wrote it in about three months and it didn’t change a whole lot, and I had a very thorough outline for that book. With my third book, I have been working on it for about a year now, and we are still chipping away at it. The process really does shift depending on what book, and if you are already under contract or you’re just writing for the fun of it, there’s so many factors. But in general, when you sell a book to a publisher, it takes at least two years until it is on shelves. And that is because you’re editing it with your editor, the marketing team is figuring out how can we market this? They’re designing the cover. There’s so much behind the scenes that I didn’t even know about until, I bought a publishing contract, and then I was like, “What do you mean it’s gonna be two years”

Miri:��The book is done, just print it!��

Sydney: Yeah. I’m like, can we just publish it now?

Miri: What do you mean there’s more work we have to do? I already did all the work! Uh, You mentioned getting under contract. How did that first happen for you? How did you go about getting yourself noticed, getting yourself out there?��

Sydney: When I first started writing during the initial COVID lockdown in 2020, I just started posting on Twitter about it. Back when Twitter was not a terrible place to be. And I ended up just kind of stumbling across the writing community. I didn’t actively search for them, but I made so many friends that I’m still friends with to this day. And back in the day there were a lot of like book pitch events on Twitter, where there’s a certain hashtag you would use, and then you could use however many Twitter characters you had to sort of pitch your book to agents.��

Miri: Hmm.��

Sydney: They would comment on your post if they wanted you to send them the book. So I actually ended up finding my first agent through one of those pitch events. My second agent, I actually also connected with on Twitter initially. So: Twitter. Yeah. But then my agent took my book. We edited it together. There’s so much editing. The book, it’s endless. And she created a list of, “I think these editors at these publishers would really like this book,” and then she sent it to them. So she – the agent – kind of controls that after you sign with them. There are some publishing houses that you can submit to if you’re un-agented, but most of them you have to have an agent to do that process for you.��

Miri: Just through Twitter and having a good pitch, and having a good agent, and then boom, here you are on book number two!

Sydney: Yes, essentially there are also, there are websites like, I think it’s called Manuscript Wishlist, where a lot of agents and also editors will put on,” Here’s the kind of client I’m looking for.” So that it’s kind of a directory where un-agented authors can look up their genre and their age range and try and find agents to submit to, and those resources are very helpful as well. But for me it was mostly Twitter. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Hey, sometimes the internet can be a force for good.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: Very, very occasionally, but, but sometimes it is true. So this is something I’ve been wondering about as you’ve been talking about this: What is the environment of young adult fiction like right now? Like, is it, is it doing good? What are the current trends? Have people been reading less or more?��

Sydney: Yeah, so… With publishing and books, it always goes in waves, where you’ll hear; X, Y, Z genre is dying, and then the next year everyone’s like, “We want this genre again. Where are, where are all the writers who write these genres?” And so it’s always very tricky. I think most authors’ least favorite word is The Market, because you see that so often, of “The Market doesn’t want that right now. “

Miri: Well, and especially if a book takes two years between being basically finished and then on shelves, like��

Sydney: Exactly.��

Miri: Anything can happen in that time.

Sydney: Yeah. So right now, fantasy is having a really big moment. When our current president got reelected – I don’t even want to curse this interview by saying his name – but you saw a big resurgence in book bans, which is so fun. Um, and so a lot.��

Miri: We love it.��

Sydney: Yes. Unfortunately now it’s even harder to get marginalized books put through publishers. And we’re seeing more people gravitate towards like fantasy, sci-fi, something that isn’t of this world. Or, it’s this world but, it’s like magical because they sort of want an escape route from our current reality. Um, but yeah, the trends are always going up or down. It’s very much a rollercoaster and nobody can really predict anything.

Miri: Yeah. ’cause I mean, I imagine what is talked about the most, what stirs up the most, you know, online discourse – which is how I think a lot of people would hear about books that they wouldn’t necessarily pick up themselves – isn’t a good reflection of what is actually popular and being read, but just not talked about a lot. And you know, most of what I see talked about is books that do feature marginalized representation and some sort of thematic thing in line with that, just because there’s more to talk about in that than a book that is less about that. Especially right now. ’cause you’ll, you’ll see things heralded from both sides of, “Oh yay, this book is an amazing Deaf/Hard of Hearing representation.” And then you’ll be like, “Oh, those snowflakes with their throat singing.”

Sydney: Yes. It’s, it’s a hundred percent like that. You get a lot of mixed opinions. And disability rep, there’s still so many stories that haven’t been told. And you hear a lot of “this trope is dead,” or “everyone’s tired of seeing this trope.” My opinion is no trope is dead until we have not just one, but several types of marginalization with that kind of story, so. Disability rep, BIPOC rep, queer rep. And a lot of the time publishing falls into, oh, “We have one Deaf book, so we don’t wanna publish yours because we’ve already published one.” It’s kind of like, okay, it’s great you published one, but we need more than that.��

Miri: You mentioned having things come in waves, and publishers not wanting X book because they already have Y book about the same thing. What are some representations that you have seen that are especially good or especially bad?��

Sydney: So especially good, I’ve already mentioned, but This Is Kind Of An Epic Love Story, and I really think that’s a testament to authors not being afraid to include a marginalization in their book that they don’t necessarily share. I am pretty sure the author of that book is not Deaf or hard of hearing in any way, and so I loved seeing that too because it was very unexpected, but it was so masterfully done. And there are so many incredible authors who are sharing own voices stories right now. is one of my good friends and writes Deaf rep as well as other disability rep in her books. My friend is incredible. He writes disability rep as well, and like Latinx fantasy, which is so fun.��

Miri: And they were the one at your first book signing, right?��

Sydney: And my second, yes. Aiden, I love him too because he uplifts younger authors in the space. He really walks the walk, of supporting marginalized authors, which is incredible. I think in terms of bad representation, you often see in books, movies, shows, whatever, that this sort of two sides of a negative stereotype coin. One is a sort of pitiable miserable, disabled character, where being miserable is their only personality trait, and the only reason that they’re miserable is because they’re disabled. That is very ableist. It’s like, okay, let’s unpack that. And then the other side of that is the sort of inspiration porn disabled character, of someone who is so successful In Spite of their disability, and they almost don’t want that associated with them, or able-bodied characters. Or like, “See, we don’t have an excuse because this person doesn’t let their disability get them down.” And, you know, that’s not saying that sometimes it, it does suck to be disabled. Absolutely does. A hundred percent. I think that that showing the sort of heavier side of being disabled is a hundred percent valid. And I, you know, I show that in my books as well. But then also, you know, not having someone just be sort of a hundred percent happy all the time. Like go, go, go, this sort of inspirational figure, because there’s so much nuance to disability rep and I myself, I have a beautiful community that I’ve made because I am disabled, that I wouldn’t have made, probably, if I wasn’t. But that also doesn’t mean that life isn’t hard because of my disabilities. And striking that sort of balance, I think that a lot of people who create film and television, as well as authors, can utilize the help of authenticity readers, or actually getting disabled people in there when you’re working on a project. It’s kind of one of those Yeah. Mind blowing concept. But I’ve even used authenticity readers in my books, even though I am hard of hearing, because, I want that extra layer of outside opinion and fresh eyes. And so I think that that is sort of something that’s underutilized right now. I think that more people should be bringing disabled people into their projects as sort of an added layer of authenticity if they are not disabled, and sometimes even if they are.

Miri: Yeah, that’s a good answer. At all of your public events, you have an interpreter, which is awesome. Love having interpreters accessible. Has there ever been pushback against getting someone like that some of your accessibility needs met, or,

Sydney: Yeah, so almost every time it’s a little tricky. In interviews or events, a lot of the time there’s this sort of monetary barrier with interpreters, because if you go through an interpretation company, they usually have much higher rates than freelance interpreters, but freelance interpreters, sometimes they don’t have all of the right qualifications, and so it can be hard to just find an interpreter in the first place. But. Yeah, it is, it is difficult when you’re working specifically, like with indie bookstores – who I love to support over, you know, a big conglomerate of any kind – oftentimes they don’t have the budget to do that. Sometimes I don’t have the budget to pay for my own interpreter, and so sometimes it’s just this situation of weighing the pros and cons of doing an event or a certain interview. I’ve been very fortunate that with this promotional round for Someone To Daydream About, my publisher has paid for an interpretation team to be at my events because we’re also catering to the Deaf community, and so we want events to be accessible for them. And I’ve also been very lucky to have some interpreters donate their time to me, for like television interviews or something along those lines where I’m not able to afford it. The company or whoever is doing the interview doesn’t have. Not necessarily the funds, but you know, there’s all sorts of approvals and, and��

Miri: Oh, yeah. So for this interview, we’re using a live transcription.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: Um, and PCC has a fantastic team of interpreters that I used for an interview a couple weeks ago. and they were able to, because we have just so many different interpreter teams, we can get people very last-minute on very short notice. But that is something that is specifically PCC’s strength, while most services you know, a bookstore is not gonna have an interpreter on staff and you know, a local news station probably won’t even have someone that they can get to without like, multiple days – if not weeks – notice, so.��

Sydney: Yeah, so it can definitely be tricky trying to sort of strike that balance. It is always something when I’m invited to a festival or for an interview that I immediately shoot back to them saying I need an interpreter. Oftentimes, you just don’t get a response. They kind of ghost you after that is very unfortunate.

Miri: Very cool of them. Very cool.��

Sydney: Yeah, and they say, “We can’t provide that, but you can bring your own,” or whatever the situation is. It can be very difficult to navigate. Of course I always want the interpreters to be paid for their time because they’re doing such great work, but sometimes nobody has, you know, the ability to, to do that. And I’ve been very lucky, like I said, to have some interpreters donate their time. One of the interpreters I’ve been working with recently actually works at PCC, and it’s been awesome to have that.��

Miri: Shout out to them.��

Sydney: Yes. That sort of connection as well. And PCCs interpreting programs are always really awesome. So I’m, I’m excited to be here doing the interview with PCC in general, but I, I love what yay y’all have going on in terms of the ASL.��

Miri: Yeah, we are very fortunate to have, to have people who are willing to put in the resources to making interpretation accessible, which it is not even at other universities,��

Sydney: Right.

Miri: with, you know, similar or greater student body needs. So you mentioned right at the start of this that you are also a musician and singer. What is that like, being hard of hearing?

Sydney: So I have not been in the sort of musical world for a while. After I really started pursuing the writing full-time, I’ve devoted all my energy to this. But music still has a huge influence, obviously in my first two books and my life now. Yeah, relearning that sort of connection to sound and the vibrations has been one of the most informative experiences just of my life, sort of in general, and one of the first moments where I sort of learned my own way of doing something because of my disability. Which, I do that so often now, where I’ll do something slightly different than is typically normal, or whatever it is, however it works for me and my needs at that time. But I still heavily use vibration equipment. I have a speaker that has a lot of vibration on it, if I’m listening to music or, I use bone conduction headphones when I’m listening to music or audio books even, because it sort of bypasses your ears, which it’s a really weird sensation when you’re getting used to it. But now I have those on like 24/7 pretty much. Yeah, I’m always listening to music. Like when I’m writing my ADHD brain needs something to latch onto that’s not just staring at my screen. Yeah, music’s definitely a big part of my life still, but my writing has now shifted from writing songs to writing books, and that is now my main creative outlet, for sure.��

Miri: So what is your, like, go-to writing playlist if you have one? Or d’you have different playlists based on the mood of the scene you’re writing?

Sydney: Yeah. So I always make specific playlists for whatever book I’m working on at that time, but I will definitely switch the mood depending on if I’m writing a sad scene, I’m not gonna be listening to a really like happy song. Um, but I typically listen to songs in foreign languages when I’m writing, because when I’m listening to songs in English, my brain tries to latch onto the lyrics.��

Miri: You just think of those words.��

Sydney: Yeah. And then I just think of those words and I can’t remember what I was typing, or I’ll straight up type the lyric into my book.

Um, that or English songs that I know the words a hundred percent so my brain’s just kind of ignoring them at that point. So like a lot of interesting Five Seconds of Summer songs, One Direction, Disney Channel original songs from my childhood movies. I’m not gonna focus on the lyrics ’cause I know them so well.��

Miri: Has there been a time when you’ve been writing a scene that a particular song came on and you’re like, “Yeah, that fits.”

Sydney: Yes, one hundred percent. There are specific songs that I will like forever associate with scenes or chapters in some of my books. �۱��.��

Miri: Nice. Yeah, I, uh, is seven songs and they’re all, they’re all, uh, ’90s gangsta rap, plus one bbno$ song. Because in, you know, in music I don’t really listen to the lyrics. I’m very much like a metal, half of the music I listen to is just incomprehensible screaming, right? Um, which is also how I feel on the inside. So it fits. But I also have to not be listening to something that is, like, effortless to understand when writing something, like, you know, questions for an interview or something.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: Thank you for talking to me today. Was there anything that you want to tell the listeners about?��

Sydney: Well, sort of on the topic of disability rep: my latest release, Someone to Daydream About, has an audiobook edition that is out now. You can get it from your local library, you can listen to it on Spotify, lots of other streaming platforms. And it is actually narrated by , who is a Deaf Broadway actress.

Miri: ��������!��

Sydney: And having that representation layered into the audio production was even more incredible for me as a Deaf author writing a Deaf book and having a Deaf actress narrate it. So if anyone is an audio book fan, I would definitely recommend checking that out.��

Miri: That’s a good point. So were you involved at all in the process of an audio book being created or was that full – is that something that an author is usually involved in, or is that usually just on the publishing side?��

Sydney: It depends. For me, pretty early on with my publisher for the hardcover said if there’s an audio book, I have opinions, I need to be involved. They ended up selling the audio book rights to a different publisher, which is pretty common, and thankfully in that contract they still put in all of that stuff about consultation. And so there were lots of conversations about how the ASL is gonna be represented, and different narrators and I actually got to go in and record the author’s note and the acknowledgements, so my voice is also in the audiobook. So yeah, I was really lucky to be very involved in the process, which is not true for a lot of authors, so I was very lucky.��

Miri: So how do you handle the ASL?��

Sydney: Yeah, so in the front of the book, there is a note about the ASL for how it appears in the hardcover, where pure ASL is in italics, and – which is simultaneous communication when someone is speaking and signing at the same time – is not italicized. So that’s just sort of treated as like regular speech. And in the audio book, there were a lot of conversations surrounding that, because you’re taking a visual language that was put on paper and now making it audio.

Miri: �۱��.��

Sydney: So it’s very tricky. So the narrator, who is a very talented ASL performer as well, she recorded all of the ASL lines speaking, and then afterwards would do the sound of the signs, and then they laid that underneath the speech. And so when it’s pure ASL in the audiobook, you’ll sort of hear the sounds of the signing happening underneath that as a way to differentiate it from other regular spoken speech in the book.

Miri: Let’s Talk is an almost exclusively audio production as well, so when we interview Deaf students or teachers or whoever, it’s always a conversation of like how to do that most respectfully.��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: …and also comprehensibly. Because the thing that is the most artistically gratifying, or culturally gratifying, might not be the best experience for a listener and vice versa. Um, like we, we had an interview last year with a, a Deaf student who, the room was unfortunately very loud, so the interpreter was hard to hear, in a relatively unrecoverable way. So we had some conversations about how we were going to do this. Like how are we going to do the voiceover of an interpreter who is interpreting someone else?��

Sydney: �۱��.��

Miri: Um, so it’s, it’s an interesting thing to think about ’cause it’s fundamentally inaccessible in a way that needs to be made accessible because it’s about accessibility and equality, so.��

Sydney: A hundred percent, those conversations are always kind of tricky, but also very important. ’cause I think getting on sort of the same page and everyone has different preferences and all of that stuff. So yeah, I was, I was really excited that they were taking my opinions into account.��

Miri: Yeah, absolutely.��

Sydney: Really listening to what I had to say about the audio book.

Miri: Yeah. Sweet! Thank you so much for coming in, talking to me this morning.��

Sydney: Thank you for having me.��

Outro

Miri: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!, ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resources department, and the PCC Multimedia department. We air new episodes on our home website, our Spotify channel, , and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Hannah “Asher” Sham

Show and Host Introduction

Kylo: You are listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk!, is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ, PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, on , and

��[Intro Music]

Zoe Liu: Hi, everyone! Welcome to “A Slice of Life”, the podcast where we go over the PCC student experience. Talk about what life is like in Portland, discuss amazing life stories that people have, and tie it all back into our culinary journeys. Our individual journeys of learning how to cook, learning amazing recipes that you can make from simple ingredients right at home, and explaining how those recipes and the culinary journeys that we’ve all been on inspire us to achieve more, to be greater, overcome challenges, and chase our dreams! I’m your host, Zoe, and I’ve got my little co-host friend, Tucker, with me. He’s my guide dog and I’ll be taking you on our introductory episode. So, sit back, relax, grab a cup of tea, coffee, and let’s go right into A Slice of Life. The first thing you might be wondering is, ooh, what is the name of this podcast? It’s about the mission of the podcast and it’s a hilarious pun too on just the culinary journey. Ultimately, the goal of this podcast, the mission of this podcast, is to interview people and to have them share their amazing and unique life stories. It’s to inspire you. It’s to be about the student experience at PCC because, while it may seem daunting, ultimately there are so many amazing things that you could do right here on campus and there are so many amazing recipes that you could do with the simple ingredients that you get here on campus. It’s easy to watch some cooking show and be like, “Ooh, this is fun!”, switch the brain off. But, it’s sometimes difficult; “when do I make this recipe at home?”, “Where do I get these amazing ingredients?”, “Where do I get , or a ?”, “How do I make this ?”… But, cooking doesn’t have to be super fancy. It doesn’t have to be like restaurant level quality. It just has to be simple. Something that you’re able to be proud of, something that you can take and be happy about sharing with friends, family, and loved ones. So, we’ve talked about the goals of the podcast, why the podcast is named the way that it is, and the fact that we’ll have guest hosts from episode to episode on the podcast. Today, it’s just me and i’d like to give you a little bit of an introduction to me, Zoe. Who I am, what my story is like, and how everything ties together back into the podcast. So, let’s get to know each other a little bit. I wanna give a quick note that it’s going to be a common thing on the podcast that the stories that we share aren’t always gonna be all sunshine and rainbows. Difficulties in life exist because like Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump said, “life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.”. Sure, there’s some sweet parts to it. There’s a lot of really tasty stuff. But, there’s also the bitter, the things that we don’t enjoy nearly as much, the things that might shock us or that might make us just a little bit uncomfortable. So, I am going to give a trigger warning before any more difficult parts that are coming up. But, ultimately, even though there are going to be challenges and there are gonna be difficult parts of the story to hear, there are also going to be amazing resolutions to these problems. That’s what this podcast is all about. Life stories, overcoming challenges, chasing dreams, no matter how far away they seem, and inspiring you, the viewer, to believe in yourself. Just as the people around me have inspired me to believe in myself. So like I mentioned, my name’s Zoe and I was born in good old New Jersey, but I came to Oregon when I was two. So, I’ve really been raised in Oregon. I do consider Oregon my home and you can’t call yourself a true Oregonian without loving a little bit of that rain! So, from an early age, I was always really advanced; I had a really strong focus on academics. In elementary school, way back in even the third grade, I was starting to take more advanced courses, taking classes that were meant for older kids, and in fifth grade I ended up taking some university courses. That summer, it was Chinese, Algebra II, and then throughout middle school I was also jumping way ahead. Taking university courses, high school courses, even calculus. By the time I was in the eighth grade, I ended up taking the GED, getting my honors GED, and applying to Oregon State University where I was accepted into the Honors college program. I ended up deciding to follow my father’s footsteps and deciding to major in electrical engineering and it really was so wonderful, something I truly enjoyed. Now, at the same time that all this was going on, I was also training as a professional table tennis athlete. This is something I look back on super fondly, because I would spend hours playing with my dad, my brother, training with my coach, training with amazing people. I am actually several time Oregon State champion, and when I was around 14/15, I was nationally ranked. I believe I placed number eight in the under 15 category at the nationals, and I did pretty well in the under 21 category as well. Now as all this was going on, as I entered high school, as I was training in table tennis, doing academics and studying hard to get my bachelor’s when I was 18, I was actually having a pretty difficult home life. With my father, it was difficult because he was never at home a lot of the time, he had a lot of business elsewhere, and, though he really loved us, we just never really got to see him all that much. And, my mother was an extremely negative force of my life. There was a lot of physical abuse, emotional abuse, a lot of trauma associated with that, and it really just kept building up and up and up. Even though I had just gotten a teaching assistant position and I was really enjoying it. I just felt like there was nothing I could do. I just couldn’t go on anymore… So, 18 days before my 18th birthday, pure coincidence, I ended up making an attempt on my own life and it ended up leaving me without my vision and without my sense of smell. It was really difficult for a while, because I didn’t know what to do. Everything was pain, everything was different. There was so much regret. But, when I got back home, eventually, I started taking classes from this wonderful organization called the , which I will reference from time to time. The OCB, if you will. There are such wonderful people there, such wonderful teachers and students. Everyone has an amazing story. And I was really starting to get a hang of how to learn to live without vision. But, ultimately my mother pulled me out of those courses and pushed me back into academics a little bit too soon, I ultimately believed. But, even though it was difficult going back to campus without any vision and having to relearn how to live life, it was still a wonderful experience because there were so many people that were genuinely wanting to help me, genuinely concerned. And that’s kind of where the seed of the podcast was planted. The student experience and especially on PCC campus, if you’re new, can be sometimes really scary. You don’t know what to do. You don’t know what to think. And. It’s hard to take that first step. For me, having lost my vision and my sense of smell, I did not step into the kitchen to cook for years. I would say, maybe half a decade even. But, with my focus on academics, it was really a lot and having to relearn life. I kind of started to just dissociate a little bit, breakdown. In 2022, at one year after getting my guide dog, Tucker, I ended up leaving home and striking out on my very own. Sure I was scared, but I ended up meeting my two current roommates who I come to think of as my adoptive siblings, my family. They’re ultimately the ones that have really inspired me to push myself forward, to do things that I might not feel as comfortable with. Because, even though I’m disabled. It’s not a disability, if you think of it merely as an inconvenience. Now, no journey is without mistakes and if you’re listening to this podcast, it’s likely that you’re living in Portland or that you’re a student of PCC campus, and a lot of us have a rice cooker at home! For me, the first time that I started using , I was like, “I kind of know how to cook rice, but what about a Rice-a-roni? Yay!”. So, I cooked a cheddar and broccoli Rice-a-roni in my rice cooker and, having poured milk and butter in there, it ended up overflowing, going everywhere, and kind of ruining the rice cooker. Now, yes, that was a mistake. But, ultimately the way that I think about mistakes are that; mistakes are an opportunity to learn. They don’t become folly unless you consistently make those mistakes over and over again, without attempting to change. For me, that was very easy! Milk boils and really becomes frothy, and it does not go in the rice cooker! Now, even though I had started using things like the rice cooker and other appliances; for me, personally, I thought it was still impossible for me to use something like the stove without my sense of sight or smell. ‘Cause, I had thought for a long while, how will I know if something’s burning? How will I know if things are okay? I remember at the OCB when I was taking a meal preparation course; I was marinating mushrooms to make these vegetarian burgers, like these big portobello mushrooms, and I ended up like using a balsamic glaze that my teacher had gave me instead of a balsamic vinegar. The glaze had a lot of sugar in it, so when they hit the cast iron pan that I was using, it started to smoke and I didn’t even notice. But, it’s again, an opportunity to learn. It’s an opportunity to take a little bit of life and use that to your advantage. Since then I have not set off the fire alarm! I properly ventilate I use the stove fan. I make sure to use proper cooking times. I’ve gotten to this point where even if I’m cooking something on the stove, I can feel something with my spatula and tell about how done it is; whether it’s a meat or vegetable or like even a grain. So, yeah, these have been wonderful life experiences that I’m really excited to share with you on this podcast, A Slice of Life. If you’re able to take something away from this podcast, feel inspired by the stories that you hear, and maybe even find a favorite recipe. Next episode, that I’ll be doing very soon, is going to be focusing on going to a food pantry on campus because they’re fairly easy to find and, if you sign up, you can get a food box. I’ll go there in person, talk to some of the people waiting, maybe some of the people that are working there, do some quick interviews and bring home a food box, because I myself also volunteer at a food pantry and I know how important food security is to so many people. Using the ingredients from a food box, you can truly make some amazing, absolute bangers of meals. You wouldn’t believe it, but using in combination with some sauces and spices that you can buy for cheap, at like WinCo or Fred Meyer, I was able to make dishes as complicated as Osaka ginger pork, Japanese ginger pork, to Taiwanese Pork, to Corn Beef Hash, Salt Crusted Baked Potatoes… Delicious meals. My roommate, Kuma, who I’ve come to see as my adoptive oldest sibling, has shared some of the recipes that they’ve learned to make with food boxes as well. Amazing, delicious recipes like Beef, Bean, and Cheese Enchiladas with a Homemade Enchilada Sauce, or something that they’ll be sharing, if I feature them on one of the next episodes too, a Mediterranean one pot soup dish. It’s absolutely divine! Now, the important thing to remember here is that all these stories and all this cooking ties back into the student experience. It ties back into the things that you can do right here, in Portland, on campus, and using the simple ingredients that you can get on campus. I wanna be able to achieve the goals of this podcast to inspire you and for you to take a little bit more away from this podcast and enhance the student experience that you’ll be living through. So, having gone over the podcast, the goals of the podcast and introducing myself, I’d like to take us into the kitchen for our very first recipe. Today it’ll be just me in the kitchen doing a sort of Bulgogi Beef recipe. I want to mention to be safe with any utensils that you may use. Be safe with kitchen prep stuff. Always make sure to wear an apron, have proper sanitary conditions, and to always wash up. But, for a quick overview of some things that you’ll need, you’ll probably need two cutting boards or trays, you’ll want a nice sharp knife, maybe a few sauces that I’ll explain, a few vegetables, like carrots, maybe some bell pepper that I’ll be using in the recipe, along with rice, some beef, whether it’s sliced like slices of beef or ground beef, even ground pork or slices of pork tenderloin work as well, and, if you could get some of those ready and some Soy Sauce, some Rice Wine Vinegar, a little bit of, maybe some Sesame Oil and some spices then you’ll be good to go. So, I hope you’ll find it really lovely, tasty, and I’m excited for you to join me on the upcoming kitchen segment of our podcast. So, see you in a bit!

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Time to Cook

Zoe Liu: Hi everyone! Welcome to the kitchen and the cooking segment of our podcast! So, a lot of people often ask me, “Zoe, what’s the thing that you do to relax the most?” Or, “you seem so optimistic. How can you just stay that way all the time?”. For me, a huge part of it is being able to cook, being able to make the things that I love, and being able to really experiment. Because, sure, cooking might seem like a difficult endeavor. It might seem really daunting at first. I mean, for me, the first time I stepped foot in the kitchen, I tried to make a Rice-a-roni in a rice cooker! I poured milk in and I didn’t realize that milk would boil over, so I ruined my rice cooker! But, it’s the little lessons like that that make the cooking journey so wonderful. You don’t have to go outside to buy expensive foods. You don’t have to think, “oh, I can’t do it at all!”, because cooking really is one of the most empowering things that you can do. If you’ve ever had bulgogi beef, this is a recipe very much inspired by that. It’s a very nice savory, but a little bit sweet, very comforting dish that you can make with ingredients that are easy to get and with not that much time needed. So, with that being said, why don’t we get started? The first thing I’ve done is I’ve laid out all of our ingredients, and this is one of the easiest things to do to make sure you don’t get confused or stressed. We have our beef, our vegetables, our spices, seasonings, sauces, and of course our rice. For me, I do love to use a good Basmati Rice and I have here a rice cooker. Now, if you don’t have a rice cooker at home, really easy to do, you can cook it in a pan as well. Just put your rice in, wash your rice three times thoroughly get rid of that starchiness, and then with your rice and a flat layer on your pan, you can pour water in. If you put your finger, like your index finger in, and you just touch the surface of the rice, if the water is up to your first knuckle, that’s about good. And then you can go ahead and start simmering it. Because I have a rice cooker I’m just gonna press down and it’s going to cook. So, moving over here to our vegetable prep station, we have here our vegetables, our sauces, and our seasonings. Now, a lot of the time, especially in college, there’s just not enough time to do anything. So, it’s hard to marinate your meat. But, you don’t need a really extra long marinade to have a flavorful, creative, and fantastic dish. Sometimes all it needs is just 10- 15 minutes in a nice flavorful and savory marinade. Today the marinade that we’re going to be using is very much Bulgogi inspired, but it’s a bit adjacent. First here, we have our spices. So, why don’t we go ahead and grab these. We’re going to put into our bowl just about a teaspoon of onion powder, a teaspoon of garlic powder. Go ahead and grab our garlic out as well. Just like a teaspoon of coriander. Now this part’s definitely not something that you need per se. But, I find that, especially if you’re using beef, the coriander really helps bring out the flavor of the beef, really makes it more robust. Then, of course, one of my favorite ingredients, cayenne; to give it that nice little kick. So, you’ve got our spices in our bowl. We’ve got our spices and we’ve got our sauces. But, we can also add in a few ingredients into our marinade here. For instance, what I’m going to do is I’m going to get my garlic, which I’ve already mixed up nice and fine, and I’m going to add about a teaspoon to this bowl. Now garlic helps bring up that lovely flavor and give it some wonderful aromatic flavor too. Now, we have on the side a little bit of ginger. It’s really easy to get ginger at the store and it’s really easy to get ginger puree or ginger paste as well. But, I personally love a bit of fresh ginger, and so you can just take your fresh ginger and you can peel off the skin, just that papery skin with like a spoon or a knife. Very easy to do. Now you can take your ginger and there are a lot of ways to prepare it. You can grate it, you can mince it nice and fine. You can even actually take some ginger, that you’ve peeled off the skin off of, and put it in the freezer. Have it frozen and, when you need it, you just pull it out, grate it up, and you’re ready to go. Here though, I’m going to give it just a nice, good mincing. Now, it doesn’t have to be exact, some nice coarse slices. ‘Cause it’s not a rocket science; it’s about making food that’s easy, but that’s also delicious, healthy, and that has the flavors that you love. Perfect! So, we’re gonna take just like maybe about half of this ginger, and add it to our marinade. There we go. Then we’re going to put set aside half the ginger as well. It’s nice because I like to have the ginger there, not only in the marinade, but also just to add to the pan to flavor all the other ingredients as well. So, now that we’ve got our spices set, we can pull out our sauces over here. I have a nice dark soy sauce. Now, it doesn’t have to be dark soy sauce it’s like a sweeter, thicker version of soy sauce. But, you can just use regular soy sauce and add a little bit of honey or brown milk sugar. It’s really up to you. We just pour in about a one and a half tablespoons. You can kind of eyeball it or change it to your desired quantity, because the best part about being able to cook at home is that you get to choose how long you cook things and how much of it there is. Just grab our whisk too, or you can use a fork to whisk this together if you like. Now we’ve got our rice wine vinegar. This helps give it that nice sour flavor. It balances out the flavor of the sugar. It helps bring out that savory and that sweet. So, we just add a little bit of that in there. That’s perfect. Then a good part of a Bulgogi Beef Marinade is actually something called “Gochujang”. Now you can find this at like your local supermarket; WinCo, Fred Meyer. It’s only three or four dollars. A lot of these ingredients are very cheap and they last a long time. Now “Gochujang” is like a fermented chili paste. It helps give it that nice flavorful kick. You can also use some red pepper flakes if you like to, but “Gochujang” gives it that really nice unique Bulgogi flavor, but you can’t really find anywhere else. So, let’s add some of that in. That’s lovely! If you don’t have rice, wine vinegar, or you don’t have any of these other ingredients, don’t worry. They’re very cheap and they’re very easy to get at the supermarket and they last a long time. So, we’re gonna go ahead and give this a nice whisk. That’s beautiful. Because we’re going to be marinating the raw meat, we’re not gonna be able to taste the meat as we cook it, and we’re not gonna be able to taste the marinade either. So, now is a good time to just take a fork and go ahead and dip the tines into the marinade and just take a little taste. Oh yes, that’s sweet, savory. Just that hint of sour too. That’s going to make a lovely marinade. And a lovely sauce too, because all this marinade is gonna go into the pan while it’s cooking too. Now, for our meat, I have here one pound of ground beef. It doesn’t have to be the whole pound. You can make however much of it you like. You can even use other meats like pork or chicken. But, the thing is, this is traditionally bulgogi beef. We’re just using some beef. You can even use slices of beef as well. But, for me as a college student and for the student experience, it’s really easy to just grab some ground beef and have it ready to go whenever I need. So, we’re going to go ahead and unpack it, and we’re going to add it to our marinade. Now, I have some vinyl gloves on, you just make sure that your hands are clean. But, now what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna give that meat a nice mix. Make sure to use your hands and mix it all in. Get those lovely flavors all working together. Get that seasoning all incorporated into the meat itself. Make sure to toss it, split it up, mash it all up with your hands because you want every single bit of meat to have that lovely flavor. We want a very even bite in flavor. We don’t want to just toss the meat in, let it not incorporate anything, and then you don’t get those even bites of flavor. And, that’s what’s really important here. See, the beef already is starting to get softer. It’s starting to absorb that marinade. So, our meat has been mixed and is currently marinating, and that’s the beauty about making food like this. You don’t have to marinate it for crazy amounts of time. Just give it a good 10- 15 minutes while you’re preparing your other ingredients, and that’s gonna give you loads of flavor; loads of saltiness, that sweetness, that sour, that we all know and love! Now that our meat is marinating, we can set that to the side and we can grab out our sharp knife and go ahead and prep the rest of our ingredients. Now over here I have one onion and I’m going to just slice it across the roots. We’re going to go ahead and discard those ends and peel off that papery skin. Sometimes there’s this also thin membrane like skin, it’s a little bit slimy, you don’t want that in your food either. So, if you feel that or you see that on your onion, go ahead and give it like a nice rub. Peel that off as well. Then we’re going to slice our onion into rings. Now we’re just going to give a nice, thorough mincing. It doesn’t have to be too fine. We’re not trying to make a paste here, but we’re just gonna dice it up nice and thoroughly. Now if you wanted to use onion powder too you could, but these onions are really easy to get for cheap at your supermarket or even at the food pantry. That actually is going to be a focus of this podcast, which is affordable and tasty cooking, and I’m going to be doing a miniseries in the future as well where I go to a food pantry, interview some of the people there, take home a food box and use those ingredients to cook a lovely meal. Because on campus there are actually a lot of food pantries that you can easily make use of. If you don’t make use of them, it’s a real shame because there’s just a lot of opportunities, a lot of ingredients that end up going to waste. We want to just eat healthy, make cheap, delicious food while still being able to focus on everything else that’s important in life. We’ve got our onion, all nice and finely chopped. So, we’re going to go ahead and grab a bowl, scrape up our onion and add it to our bowl. My two other vegetables that I have here are my bell pepper and my carrots. Now, the carrots you can buy them and peel off the skin and chop them up. But, sometimes it’s a little bit of effort. So, what I’ve done here already actually is I’ve bought some pre-sliced carrots. It’s been sliced in a manner called a “Julian”, being like thin matchstick. They’re already nice and prepped, they’re ready to go. So, I can just take those out and add them into my mixture whenever I need to. But, for our bell pepper, we’re gonna go ahead and slice off the top and bottom, and slice open the bell pepper. And, there are those like seeds in this side. Just take a spoon or take your finger. Go on and scrape those out. Then we take our bell pepper and we’re going to slice it into nice medium sized strips, because we’re not going to julienne this bell pepper. But, we’re going to chop it up into nice even pieces. That bell pepper is going to give you a nice, wonderful flavor. You can add other vegetables if you wanted to. Again, that’s the beauty of being able to cook and make your own food. You can decide whatever you want to add into this recipe and you can make any edits that you want. So, we’ve got our vegetables chopped up. We’ve got our onion, our bell pepper, our carrots, and all that leaves is, well, the cooking. So, we’re gonna give our hands a quick wash and head on over to our stove! Now you don’t need any fancy utensils or pots or pans. It’s nice to have a wok, but you don’t need it. Right now, all I have here is just a basic Teflon Frying Pan, and I’m gonna go ahead and add just a little bit of olive oil. You don’t need too much, just like about a teaspoon. Because, we already have that lovely flavor, those lovely oils coming from the beef itself, and we don’t want to make everything too greasy. We’ve got about a teaspoon of olive oil and we’re going to start heating that up over medium high heat. Of course we wanna turn our fan on. Now. It’s important to have good ventilation as well, whenever you’re cooking. Because, if you don’t, it’s sometimes easy to set off the fire alarm or to burn things. Me, myself, on top of not having any vision, like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, I actually don’t have a sense of smell either. There was one time I remember I was trying to make these lovely vegetarian burgers. I had these big portobello mushroom caps that I had marinated in some Italian herbs, soy sauce, and olive oil. Of course, I wanted to use a balsamic vinegar to add to the marinade. But, I didn’t have any, so what did I use? I used a . Now, for those of you that aren’t sure what that is. It’s like a balsamic vinegar, but it’s a lot sweeter. It’s got a lot more sugar to it. It’s a lot thicker. When you put it into a pan at high heat, that sugar will smoke. And, because I wasn’t able to smell it, that sugar and those mushrooms started to smoke and it ended up setting off the fire alarm. Now, it wasn’t a big deal because I moved it off the burner, turned off the burner, went outside, and made sure that everything was okay. But, you don’t want to have things catch fire or set off the fire alarm in a dorm or apartment or anything like that. So, it’s always good to make sure that we’re nice and careful when we’re doing something like this. So, our oil’s starting to heat up and we are going to go ahead and take our ingredients, and get them ready to add to the pot. Because, these things are gonna cook nice and quick and we don’t want things to burn. But, we also don’t want to undercook things. So, it’s important to have the timing nice and down. Now, the oil’s just about ready for the food to be added to it, so I’m gonna go ahead and grab a spatula. I am going to grab my onions and my ginger, and we’re gonna go ahead and add that to our pot. When it hits the pot, we want to hear that lovely sizzle. That’s how we know that everything’s just starting to come together. Now we’ve got a nice even layer on our pan. Let’s go ahead and grab our carrot. Let’s go ahead and add those in. It doesn’t have to be exact or anything. You can use whatever ingredients and how much of it you want. For me, I’m using about two thirds of a cup of Julianne carrots. We’re gonna give that just a quick stir, make sure everything’s incorporated together and a nice flat layer on the bottom of the pan. When we’re cooking, we don’t wanna move it around too much. We wanna give the ingredients time to warm up and cook. An old teaching instructor of mine once told me that, the marriage of the ingredients in French, it’s the “Mirepoix”. The marriage of the ingredients is really important, because the first few minutes are when the ingredients start to cook, combine, and all those lovely flavors start to release. As those onions are starting to sweat, let’s go ahead and take out our beef and our marinade. We’re gonna come back to our pan, and if you’ve already sliced your beef then this shouldn’t be too much of an issue for you. You won’t have to break up the ground beef or anything. But, because, we’re using ground beef today, we’re gonna go ahead and pour everything in there. Make sure to use your spatula get all that meat out, that lovely marinade. ‘Cause that marinade is going to turn into a nice, thick sauce. We want to go ahead and break up the ground beef with our spatula here. We don’t want a big, thick chunk of meat. My friends and neighbors are gonna be smelling this over the fence and they’re gonna be like, “Oh, Zoe! What are you making?”. And, I’ll be like, “Oh, my famous Bulgogi adjacent to beef!”. It really is so simple, even taking this to things like potlucks parties, people are always asking, “Wow, Zoe! How did you make this? It tastes amazing!”. And, I just tell them that it’s sort of my own little take on Bulgogi Beef. Nothing too special, nothing too wild. We’re using simple ingredients, we’re combining them in a way that really works. Really brings out the flavor in everything and ultimately tastes good and makes you feel good about eating! So, now we’re going to go ahead and give that beef a little bit of time to just cook through and wrap and brown. You could hear that marinade sizzling. We’re going to go ahead and give it a few minutes. And while we’re cooking the beef, let’s go ahead and check on our rice. Oh, perfect! Our rice is done! So, we’re going to go ahead and unplug our rice cooker. And, we are going to bring over our pot of rice. Now you might really be asking me like, “Zoe, I get it. Cooking is fun and everything, but why should I cook? What’s the point of it?” That’s a big reason for why I’m actually starting this podcast is because, I want to show people that there’s true joy not only in life. Not only in learning lessons and listening to the trials and the experiences of other people, but being able to have control over what you eat, over the things you do, and being able to really do things for yourself. After I lost my vision, I was sure that I’d never be able to cook again. Doubly so, because I didn’t have any sense of smell. After losing my vision, it was about, a good five years or so until I stepped into the kitchen and actually tried cooking for the first time. Of course, I wasn’t exactly sure what I was doing. But, I learned and I never gave up. Sure, there were discouraging moments like when my milk boiled over and made a mess, or when I cook things the wrong way and I thought to myself, “oh, dang, what a waste.” But, for the people around me to encourage me to tell me a mistake is not something bad. It’s an opportunity to learn. For people to tell me that, to tell me that I could do it, it really helped me move forward. It really helped me believe in myself. Ultimately, it’s given me a lot of confidence. Because, as someone without vision and as someone without a sense of smell, it’s hard to tell when food’s done cooking, or when it’s browned nicely, or even when you can just turn the burner off and let the residual heat finish cooking like a Benedict, or something. But, with practice, with experience and with persistence, cooking has really taught me that I can really do anything I put my mind to. So, now that our beef is starting to cook up nicely. We are going to go ahead and go back to our vegetables. Now, notice how I didn’t add the bell peppers straight away. That’s for a pretty good reason, actually. Bell peppers cook pretty fast and we don’t want them to get mushy or anything, so we’re gonna add them towards the end. But, we’re going to go ahead and grab just a little bit more of our ginger. Go ahead and add that in. Just a little bit left. Then we’re going to go ahead and add in some freshly cracked black pepper. Now we don’t even need to season it or add salt, or anything, because there’s gonna be all that lovely salt coming from the soy sauce, all that lovely flavor coming from your spices, from your rice wine vinegar, and especially that “Gochujang”. So, that’s gonna cook up really nicely. Now all we have to do is let it reduce down! That marinade, as you can hear, is bubbling away. As we cook it for just a few more minutes, it’s going to reduce down. It’s gonna thicken and it’s going to turn into that lovely sauce that we’ll mix in with our rice and turn into that beautiful Bulgogi Marinade. We’re gonna go ahead and grab our bell peppers now. If you wanted to add other vegetables too, like cabbage or, maybe, even some spinach, or kale, that would work too. Mushrooms would also work. Add in our bell peppers, and give that a quick stir. So, as our food finishes cooking, this is just a really good chance to think, reflect, and feel proud of yourself for being able to make a wonderful recipe like this. Because, yes, it’s easy to go outside, but it’s also expensive and it’s not as healthy. Sure, you can make cup noodles too, but ultimately there’s very little that can beat the lovely flavors of a home cooked meal. So, the beef has been cooking. It’s been a few minutes, and the sauce has reduced. It’s nice and thick. It’s glossy. And, we don’t wanna overcook our meat. We don’t wanna burn our meat. So, we’re gonna give it a quick stir. And we’re going to go ahead and grab our pot of rice. Now, we’re gonna turn down the heat to low, just keep everything nice and warm, but we don’t wanna burn our food. We’re gonna take our pot of nicely cooked rice, and we are going to go ahead and add that into our vegetable and meat mixture. Now, it’s as simple as just taking our rice- You don’t have to mix it, you don’t have to do it this way, but I just find that it’s a lot easier and especially if you have leftovers it’s very easy to just take all this put into a Tupperware, then just store it in the fridge. It’s a lovely lunch or dinner for the next day too. You could pour the mixture and the sauce over the rice. I just find that this way, it’s a lot easier on the run. That’s what a lot of this podcast is about; connecting it with the student experience and being able to do the best things to support being a student and whatever that busy life entails. Now, I’ve turned our burner off and I’m just gonna continue just mixing it, incorporating all those ingredients together. Our rice, our carrots, our onions. And, of course, for our final touch; you can top this with, if you have, scallions. But, right now on hand I have some sesame seeds. So, we’re going to go ahead and grab our sesame seeds, and just give that a nice shake. Then we give it one final good thorough stir. I know! I know your mouth must be salivating at the sight and smell of that lovely dish. Alright, so we have our final product and we’re going to go ahead and grab a spoon, and we’re going to give it a taste! Oh, and that’s lovely! It’s spicy, it’s savory! Mm! And the sesame seed give it that lovely crunch to finish it off. Well, I do believe that this is ready to be plated! So, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, I hope you’ll tune back in for the next episode of A Slice of Life with me, Zoe, and I’ll catch you for the next episode! Thank you all for listening!

��[Outro Music]

Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!, ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC multimedia department. We air new episodes on our , our Spotify Channel, , and

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Julie K. and Miri

Disclaimer

Asher: You’re listening to Let’s Talk! Let’s Talk! is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ, PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, and on , and

Episode Intro

Miri: Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Let’s Talk! My name is Miri, and today we’ll be exploring the Oregon Association on Higher Education And Disability conference, more commonly known as ORAHEAD. ORAHEAD is a place for people who work in accommodations and accessibility to get together, discuss developments in legislation over the previous year, and swap advice, techniques, and stories with others from all across the state.
Over the weekend, I got the opportunity to talk with some of these incredibly passionate people, to learn about all the different paths they’ve taken to get to where they are today, and how the work that they do means so much to the students they get to work with.

Rosa Ramirez from EOU

Rosa: My name’s Rosa. I’m the Accommodation Specialist at Eastern Oregon University. As a student, I was working three part-time jobs. Full-time student, full-time student athlete. Spring term, my boss at the time just quit—took off. And so I was basically doing that job, and then I was like, “Hey, I graduate. Can I apply for that job?” And they’re like, “Yeah, I don’t see why not.” And I did. So that’s how I got into this position. I’m starting my third year.��

Miri: You said full-time student athlete. What’s a little bit about that? What kind of athletics were you doing?

Rosa: I was a female wrestler for Eastern. I was a walk-on.��

Miri: Were you good?��

Rosa: No.��

Miri: No.��

Rosa: Oh, definitely not. I was okay. I could hang with the big dogs, but I was not a big dog.��

Miri: That’s super cool.��

Rosa: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: How did you get interested in this kind of work in the first place?��

Rosa: I wasn’t super interested at first. I was just kind of looking for a big kid job, and this was the spot. I was like, “I’m already doing it. Might as well get paid.”��

Miri: Yep.

Rosa: That’s how I got into it. And then, as the year went on, I was like, “I really love helping students and making them feel welcome.” Funny thing, one of your podcast students was also a student at Eastern, and I worked with him a lot. It was really good to see him finally walk across stage, ’cause I did a lot of his stuff as a student worker. And then I got into the big kid spot, and I was still doing some of his stuff, and then finally saw him walk across his graduation stage. And that was pretty good.

Miri: That was the moment where it hit you, “Oh, I helped that happen.”

Rosa: Yeah. From then, it’s just, “I love helping students.” And I was like, “Wow. I, I helped—a lot actually. Just little things like that.��

Miri: How long was that?

Rosa: Just last year.��

Miri: Last year. Nice. Did you meet him that same year or before that?��

Rosa: No, so I was a student worker. I was doing a lot of his stuff, but I didn’t get the whole picture of who he was. I was just, ” Hey, you gotta do this audio text.” And I’m like, “Okay, cool.” I just didn’t know.

Miri: And that was working with us?

Rosa: Yeah.

Miri: That’s kind of a crazy coincidence.��

Rosa: Yeah, I know. When you were doing your podcast, I turned over to Taylor. She’s like, “Yeah.”��

Miri: “It’s Miguel!”��

Rosa: I was like, “Why? How’d you know?” But I didn’t know, like what? That was kind of funny.

Miri: It’s a small world of not a whole ton of people who are actually doing it.

Rosa: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: This is probably, what, a quarter of us in this room, in the whole state?��

Rosa: Yeah. It’s still a bunch of us too. It’s crazy.��

Miri: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you.��

Rosa: Yeah.

Claire Lingefelter from LBCC and Dana Gallup from OCCC

Miri: Thanks for having a quick little talk with me. Could you both introduce yourself and where you work?��

Claire: Yeah, sure. I’m Claire Lingefelter. I work at Linn-Benton Community College in Albany, Oregon. I’m an Accommodation Specialist and I work on our care team as well.

Dana: Hi, I’m Dana Gallup. I’m a Student Support Specialist and I work at Oregon Coast Community College. I’ve been doing so for seven years.��

Miri: So what got you started with being a student specialist?��

Dana: It was a little bit on accident.��

Miri: I’ve heard that a couple times.��

Dana: I moved out here for family reasons and needed a job in Ed, and was looking to switch gears a little. I’ve been a teacher and a sub and private tutor, and I would be like, “I would like to have one job, please, instead of three.” And then I got a job that was three jobs in one. But it’s okay! It means that every day is a little different, which is nice. I was really enjoying the transition to higher Ed. And I really come to love the kind of unique situation of a community college. It’s not just your standard idea of a college student coming straight from high school. I mean, I do have those, but I also have folks that are a lot older, that are established, have families, they’re looking to get a different job or a better job, or are coming back to school after years and years away, and there’s a lot of baggage with that. And I feel lucky to get to be part of helping them reach some of those goals.��

Miri: What are the differences in what students have to deal with if they are a fresh student, someone coming out of high school or early college, or someone who’s returning after a period of time, maybe even decades?��

Dana: I feel like there’s definite generational difference in how people view disability, especially. I find that there’s a tremendous amount of shame that people that are older carry. There was a lot of messaging that was very damaging that they were given when they were younger. One of the reasons why I’m glad to have kind of fallen into this work, and the reason why it matters a lot to me is, for example, members of my own family who went to school in the sixties. They didn’t get told, “Oh, you have ADHD, here are some accommodations that might help you have access to your education.” No, they were told to their face they were stupid, couldn’t learn, and would never amount to anything.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Dana: And I’ve seen the pain that they carry to this day.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Dana: It was always, when I was a classroom teacher, and even now in this role in accessibility services, it’s always been about, “I don’t want that to happen to anyone else. I don’t want anyone else to feel that way.” That’s why it matters to me.��

Miri: That’s so cool and absolutely fantastic, reasonable thing, too. I think this is something that a lot of people are saying, is they’re just tired of seeing people be treated badly. So they’re like, “This is a job where I can make people be treated respectfully and with the way that they need to be treated.”

Dana: Yeah. And so the older students, they’ll come to me with a fresh diagnosis, “Hey, I’m 40 something, but I just got diagnosed with ADHD.” And I’m like, “Awesome! Let’s talk about it. Have you experienced this and this and this?” Because everyone has different grab-bag of symptoms. And they’ll go, “Yeah.” I hear that all the time from other students, “ADHD, really? Yeah. Let’s try these. Have you heard of these strategies?” And we have a whole fun conversation. Well, funny to me. It’s fun because I’m a nerd about this stuff, you know. We have this whole conversation about it, and then you can sometimes, with some of those conversations, you can just see their shoulders sag in relief.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Dana: And they go, “Wow, this is so cool. I didn’t know that there were all these accommodations out there.” And I’m like, “Yeah! Let’s set ’em up for you.” Of course, not every conversation is like that or that easy, but those are the ones that kind of stick with me as, “Let’s keep doing this job, even if it’s a tough job sometimes.”

Miri: And what about for yourself? How’d you get started in working in accessibility?��

Claire: I kind of, similar to you, moved out to Oregon because I had some changes in my personal life, and my family has moved out here over the years. Originally from the East Coast, and I was teaching middle and high school Spanish for four years on the East Coast. And then when I moved out here, was substitute teaching and also private tutoring and the whole nine yards. I live in Corvallis, Albany, and it’s just a smaller area, and there aren’t as many jobs teaching. I also was considering what else do I wanna change in my life? Thinking about other ways that I could stay working with students, but maybe try higher Ed. Community college has always appealed to me as a place to maybe teach someday. I like the idea of that space, having gone to community colleges myself, and this feeling that the students really wanna be there as a step to a four-year institution, or they’re coming to change, like you were saying.��

Miri: About people at community colleges—

Claire: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: —wanting to be there. And that being such a big change from high school, middle school—

Claire: Exactly.��

Miri: —where you’re forced to be there.��

Claire: Yeah. I love that. I think the shared motivation that a lot of students have to be there, it’s great. So this job opened up and I applied, ‘cause I thought I might be a good fit. Especially because I got a master’s degree when I was still living on the East Coast, and it was focused on teaching students with dyslexia foreign languages. And ‘cause that was one of my passions when I was teaching Spanish, I ended up with a lot of students with dyslexia in my class. I was in, sometimes, private institutions where nobody was telling me about accommodations. I was coming up with it myself. And members of my immediate family have dyslexia and stuff, so I already felt quite passionate about finding best practices for that. Coming into this job, I felt that was something I could continue to work with students on, and then partner with professors—

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Claire: —figuring out those best practices and good accommodations for students with dyslexia. That’s a lot of my work now with our students with print disabilities. I have members of my immediate family who also have a lot of mental illness and ADHD and other neurodivergence going on. And those who have gone to college in my family have had, at other institutions, negative experiences with disability services that enraged me, frankly. And so, um, yeah, I felt this is work that I am both interested in and have personal experience with, and also feel passionate about. It needs to get done, and I wanna do it well, and I still get to work with students in community college. They wanna be there, I wanna be there. I love the problem-solving. Every day is a new puzzle, and it really is like you said, it’s fun for me to talk about strategies and things. Even if you don’t have a diagnosis, you coming with a constellation of struggles, then we can figure out ways to accommodate whatever you’ve got going on. Even though often the circumstances are not great for students, it feels good to be able to put something in place that will help them be on a path to being more successful in the future.��

Miri: You said “print disability?” Sorry.��

Claire: Yeah, so we have students who will come with diagnoses of dyslexia, or other disabilities that might affect their ability to read or understand print with their eyes. And I just end up working with a lot of students who need audio books or some sort of assistive technology. Sometimes students with vision disabilities, although we have another member of our team who also works with us. Everything overlaps in our team. Yeah, a lot of students with both diagnosed and undiagnosed reading disabilities and related things come to me.��

Miri: Interesting. And, sorry, I think I cut off a question of yours.��

Dana: No, I just—what was I gonna say? Oh, no, cut this out. Um, I feel like so many students come in to my office, and even if they’re not conscious of it, they just want to be heard.

Claire: Yeah.

Dana: They need someone to listen, and they need to feel like the person listening cares. I may or may not be able to do something about all the things that they have to tell me about, but I can try to point them towards other departments or other services that we have, and I can just, at the very least, be an active, sympathetic ear.

Claire: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Dana: And I find that that’s a huge part of it.

Miri: Yeah. That seems like one of the most common things that students end up needing. Even if they aren’t given a direct accommodation through official channels, just having someone they can go and talk to and be listened to and respected, especially for high schoolers, often for the first time in their life.

Dana: I’m struggling, and I want someone to see me.

Claire: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Yeah, exactly.��

Dana: And I want that struggle to be acknowledged, that it’s hard, instead of being told that it’s some flaw of mine or something in my head.��

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Claire: I love it when students come in and either they have a diagnosis that’s new to them, or they’re just feeling a lot of shame about, like, “Oh, I feel like it’s such an imposition. I’m taking out people’s time just being here. I hate asking about accommodations.” And we talk about it in certain accommodations, and they’re like, “Oh gosh, seems like so much.” And I’m like, “Yo, this is so normal.”��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Claire: Like, it is normal what you are experiencing in the spectrum of things I see all day. It’s so normal. It’s all in this spectrum of human existence. Normal.

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Claire: And they’re like, “Oh, okay, okay.” I love, sort of similar, they get to be heard and also be validated in their experience.��

Dana: �۱𲹳�.��

Claire: Yeah, of course, X, Y, Z thing that you’re dealing with is difficult, and that’s normal based on what’s happening in your brain and body.

Dana: I really try to push the “different operating system” metaphor. “There’s nothing wrong with you. You’re running Mac OS in a Windows world.” You know? “It’s obnoxious because there’s some compatibility issues with the brain wiring that you have.”

Claire: Right.

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Dana: And the way that things are designed. And that sucks.��

Claire: Yeah.

Dana: And try to think of it that way. And again, I have, like, my stupid pet analogies that I use with students, but I use that one a lot because I’ll have students who come in with that baggage and shame that I mentioned. Your brain wiring is just a different kind of brain wiring.

Claire: Right.

Dana: It doesn’t mean it’s less.

Miri: That really emphasizes that it’s not something wrong.��

Dana: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: It’s just is something that is different.

Dana: There can be things that that brain wiring is really good at. Not to like invalidate the fact that it’s a disability. You are disabled by it. There’s things that are gonna be really hard, depending on the situation for you, and that’s awful, right? That’s a struggle that I never want to go at it from toxic positivity either. Like, “Oh yeah, your brain is a superpower!” For example, it can help someone with ADHD feel better to be like, “Well, you know what? You might have a lot of trouble with executive dysfunction, but I bet you’re amazing at coming up with a billion good ideas in a group project. You are like the ideas person, usually.” And they’ll go, “Yeah. I mean, I kind of am.” And I’m like, “Awesome.”

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Claire: Exactly.��

Miri: Awesome. Well, thank you guys both so very much. I love hearing smart people get really into something and just, like, be like, “Oh yes, this is something my brain likes,” and then just letting them go. It’s just, it’s one of the best parts of my job. Just listening to smart people will be smart for a little while. It’s the best.

Dana: Well, thanks for calling us smart. I appreciate it.��

Miri: You’re both smart, dedicated, and passionate people.��

Dana: And I’ll have to, at some point, connect with you about resources for dyslexia.

Claire: Oh, sure.

Dana: I got a couple students I’m working with, and I feel like I could know a lot more about it.

Claire: Sure. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Claire: For sure.

Sarah Livengood from PSU

Sarah: My name is Sarah Livengood. I work at Portland State University. Full title is Assistant Director for Alternative Access at the Disability Resource Center.

Miri: What got you started in working in accessibility?��

Sarah: I’m one of those students that took years to get their degree. It took about 20. I went to ˿����Ƶ right away after high school. But then there’s this trajectory, “I gotta quit school ’cause I gotta go work, and I can’t do school.” Just a pretty normal path. I decided at some point in my mid thirties, I finally built up the confidence. “I want to go get my master’s degree, become a mental health counselor.” So I gotta get the bachelor’s outta the way.

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Enrolled back in PSU, then quickly found it was so hard to keep a job and do that. I was just running into the same thing, and I’m like, “Well, why don’t I get a job on campus?” So I got a job in the Disability Resource Center. I’ve actually worked there for, like, 10 years. Started as a student employee.��

Miri: Yeah. The second person I’ve talked to was, “I’ve started out as a student employee,” and then just kind of really liked this.”

Sarah: Yeah, no, it was really cool. By the time I was graduating, they had an opening for front office assistant. So I was like, “Oh, I wanna stay.” I got the job, became the office manager, and by that time, I was pursuing my master’s degree and stayed there.��

Miri: What’s your master’s in?��

Sarah: My master’s in Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

Miri: ��������.��

Sarah: I still have aspirations to be a mental health counselor, but I love the work that I’m doing at the DRC, so I don’t think I can leave it just yet.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Sarah: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: So what is your favorite part of doing this? What is the thing that gets you out of bed and to a very emotionally draining and, uh, resource-difficult job?

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, it has changed over time. In the beginning, I was like, “I need money. I’m needed, and I have a hard time leaving jobs. Great team to work with.” But as I moved up into positions, like I was an access counselor for many years, a Disability Services Counselor, and that’s where I really started learning how to interpret the law, really think critically about barriers and students’ needs, and pair them up with accommodations. I was like, “This is really cool.” I’m really proud of it, that we are doing it, that I’m doing it. And then, as I’ve gone up, I’ve started working with faculty more often. So all that coordination, yes, it can be really hard and people hate you, but I think it’s just so cool once you finally get something going. But I think the most centered kind of response is I believe higher education is to upward mobility, identity and all these things people deserve. If accommodations are part of that, then I wanna make that accessible to people too.��

Miri: And your master’s is in mental health?��

Sarah: Clinical mental health.��

Miri: Yeah. How much of what you see in your day-to-day is mental health-related disability versus, like, physical injury-related disability?

Sarah: Mental health is huge. I think it represented 95% of our students. Not that it was the only disability, but it was the most prominent. Students had mental health disabilities, but they also had chronic anxiety or depression, or any mental health condition was the largest represented. I believe it probably still is.

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I still see a lot of that. I see a lot of chronic health, chronic medical conditions, and neurodivergence is pretty big now too.��

Miri: What is the line between getting mental health accommodations versus just neurodivergency accommodations, even in the approach, if the end result is the same?��

Sarah: Yeah. I try to ask students, “Okay, you’ve disclosed you have such-and-such disability. Tell me, when that’s active or when it’s symptomatic, what is that like for you in the classroom setting?” I go straight to the barrier. We think of the accommodation and we match it up with that to address that specific thing. I guess you could say maybe mental health disabilities are gonna attract more things like flexible attendance or breaks during class or turning your camera off, versus neurodivergence might be alternative to presentation or alternative to group projects. But we don’t like to do that in this field. We don’t like pigeonhole. My training has very much been, “Stick with the barrier” and go from there.��

Miri: ��������.��

Sarah: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: That’s really cool to hear.��

Sarah: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: One of my favorite parts about doing this is getting to hear smart, passionate people talking about the thing they are passionate and knowledgeable about. I’m always lucky to get to talk to people who are like that.��

Sarah: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Thanks for your time.

Sarah: Oh, no, thank you.��

Miri: And I am very looking forward to trivia.��

Sarah: Let’s do it! I hope you enjoy trivia. I love it. It’s like the fourth or fifth year I’ve done it here at the conference. I need to release, like, my greatest hits.

Miri: What started you doing trivia?��

Sarah: Well, I started doing trivia as a side job many, many years ago. I was just looking for part-time work and going to it, like bar trivia.

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I would see people host. I had a friend that was hosting, actually a neighbor and a friend. It just looks fun. I bet I could do it. And one day I was like, “I wanna try it.” And I loved it. The first time was scary—��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Sarah: —and I was really shy, but it’s more get to play music and people have so much fun. And I wasn’t ever really writing the questions back then. I was working for a company that provided questions. I was just speaking and being a good host and entertaining. I like to do that.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Sarah: I guess the music was the most fun, like pairing up the music. A lot of teams liked when you would give them hints or you would kind of make a theme going on and tie the music in. So that was really cool for me. Yeah, and then people get word that you’re a trivia host, and they’re like, “Well, can you do it for everything?”

Miri: We love doing trivia.��

Sarah: Yes. Yeah, no, it’s fun. I love hosting. I’m looking forward to it.��

Miri: Awesome.��

Sarah: Yeah.

Miri: Thank you so much.��

Sarah: Yeah.

Miri: I’m ready to win!

Sarah: You’re welcome. Yeah, do it.��

Miri: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Taylor Smith from EOU, Sarah Liven at PSU, and Jewls Griesmeyer-Krentz at WU

Jewls: The future is accessible. We need to envision a way to make that possible and tangible and something we can work towards. Something beautiful and attainable. That’s everything to me.��

Miri: And that could be the soundbite. That’s the start of the episode.��

Sarah: Yeah. You should have pressed record.

Miri: I did.��

Sarah: Oh, good.��

Jewls: Oh, okay then. There you go. One of my favorite things when I’m working on planning a conference— and one of the things I’ve tried to do, as ORAHEAD president—has been to try and build community. If I could think of one thing that’s the most important for me, has been to build community and build vision and purpose around that. So when we do a conference, having that overarching theme we’re working towards, to me, has been really important. It’s the last couple of conferences, there’s been a theme that’s driven it, and I like that. I like being able to look back and say, “Oh yeah, that was the one that worked on community,” or “worked on building an accessible future” and having a purpose, a mission that we could grow teeth with.

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jewls: Or “That was the one that was the day after the election last year.”

Miri: Yeah. I was hearing about that before the conference from Phyllis, and she was like—��

Sarah: It was weird.��

Miri: —it was an energy like she’s never experienced before.��

Jewls: I still get chills when I think of that—standing up in front of this room full of people and the looks on everybody’s face. We’re all just devastated. And yet, I can’t assume everybody’s political position, and I have to figure out something to say because I have to name it. I can’t just let that go without saying anything. So I just say, “This is hard. This has been rough. And whatever side of the political spectrum you’re on, we’re all hurting.” And we gotta name that, because we all have to be together in this. No matter what, we all have students at our heart, all working towards the same goal, and that is access and accessibility for students. We’re all on the same mission. So how do we do that?��

Miri: Yeah. No matter which side of the political spectrum you’re on, whoever you voted for, if you are doing this kind of job, you don’t want to see the resources for your students disappear. They’re the reason you do this, I would assume. I mean, nobody’s doing it for the pay.

Jewls: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: And it’s because there are students who we care about and people who we want to see live their fullest lives. If those reasons or resources are taken away, then that makes everything harder and a little bit sadder.��

Jewls: It does. And we set aside time for just collective grieving at lunch, or just a space for that. I think that was important. Setting the tone for community is huge, because if we don’t have the trust of our colleagues, if we don’t know our colleagues and can’t rely on them to have input and answers for the tough questions when they come up, we’re in this by ourselves— and this is hard work. This is hard work in hard times. That’s what I’ve been the most interested in. That, for me, is what I can focus on. The thing that I can do.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jewls: To build an accessible future is to build a community.��

Miri: And it’s an incredible thing. It’s an impressive thing. It’s hard to do, and as obviously as, you know, playing everything and getting everyone to do the same thing, care about the same thing, communicate in a meaningful way.��

Jewls: Well, and even harder is finding a way to build a sense of belonging when you don’t agree. Ben McBride talks about expanding the circle of human concern to include those people that we don’t necessarily agree with. But we can find some sort of common ground, or we can build a sense of belonging with or find a bridge. And I think that’s for the work we do, it’s hugely important. We have a lot of professors that we work with that do not agree with us. Full stop. We need to find a bridge. And in order to do that, we need to expand the circle of human concern to include them and their concerns. What are they concerned about? Because most likely, they also have students and student concerns that are at their center. They are also interested in student learning. So, how do we build that bridge?

Miri: And for the record, what’s your name and where are you from?��

Jewls: Oh! Sorry—I just went woobooloo!��

Miri: No, that was amazing.��

Jewls: Yeah, I—I—I talk…

Miri: And we listen. That’s the point.��

Jewls: My name’s Jewls Griesmeyer-Krentz. I use she/her pronouns. I’m the Assistant Director of Accessible Education Services at Willamette University, Pacific Northwest College of Arts specifically, and I’m also the president of the Oregon Association of Higher Education and Disability—ORAHEAD. Happy to be here.��

Miri: We have with us also two more excellent, brilliant people. If you could introduce yourself, tell us where you’re from and what you do?

Sarah: I’m Sarah Livengood, Assistant Director for Alternative Access at Portland State’s Disability Resource Center. I’m also the treasurer on the ORAHEAD board.

Miri: ��������.��

Taylor: And my name’s Taylor Smith, the Assistant Director of Disability Services at Eastern Oregon University.��

Miri: Nice. So how did you get started doing disability advocacy?��

Taylor: Great question. I started out, actually, as a student worker within our learning center on campus. And throughout my experience in being a student at Eastern, I had a lot of great mentors. And in terms of my kind of professional career path, I was uncertain about what I wanted to do in the future. The one thing that continued coming back to me was I knew that I wanted to work with people, and I wanted to be in a role where I could serve people and help.

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Taylor: That was a guiding thought for me. And like I said, I had great mentors that continued encouraging me about finding my path and going towards something that I was passionate about. I was encouraged to apply for the accommodation specialist position in our office, worked in that role for a couple years, and it was awesome. I gotta work one-on-one with students and really get to know students on a deeper level, and understanding some of the struggles or the barriers they were experiencing. I just knew that I wanted to continue with that work.

Miri: Nice. And the role you have now—how has that furthered that?��

Taylor: Yeah. So I am doing a lot of the intake meetings with students.��

Miri: What is an intake meeting?��

Taylor: It’s a key component to understanding limitations students with disabilities face and understanding what challenges they may experience in the academic field. So, in an intake meeting, there’s a lot of questions, lot of getting to know the student—what they’re passionate about, what their future goals are, courses or field of study they want to look into. It’s really just having a conversation, engaging with a student, and getting to know them.��

Miri: And you get to do that as a primary part of your job now?��

Taylor: �۱��.��

Miri: ��������.��

Taylor: And it’s my favorite. Love getting to work with students, getting to know them, be a part of their path to their future. And yeah, just understanding what kind of makes them tick and what gets them excited about their future.��

Miri: That’s super cool. I don’t work student-facing—or at least not the public student-facing. I just work with our student advocates who are already a paid group in the school. So hearing from people who work with students at that level is always super interesting, because that’s just not something I get to see in my day-to-day job, which is looking at a bunch of waveforms and putting ’em together, fixing transcripts and stuff. So that’s super cool.��

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, I started out with some of the more technical and technology components to the position and understanding some of the accommodations that were available to students, which I think was helpful in transitioning to communication and understanding student role of just engaging with students on a more one-to-one basis. But yeah, I definitely love the interactive process and just getting to know students on a more personal level and getting to understand what they enjoy doing on campus, what they’re learning in their field of study, and what their hobbies are and just trying to figure out ways that I can best support them in whatever their future goals are.

Miri: And what got you started in this whole thing? Which I guess I’ve asked about before, but—��

Sarah: That’s okay. You mean in the field of disability services?��

Miri: Yeah. Or what got you to start in the position you are now?��

Sarah: Um, well, a very long process, but—actually it’s kind of funny. I’m a long-life adult learner. Completed my bachelor’s degree—I think I was like 38. And while I was doing that, I decided to get a job on campus at Portland State and got a job at Disability Resource Center. And Jewels, with us today, was my supervisor. She hired me as a classroom assistant to assist blind students in the classroom, providing descriptions of things written on the board and things in class.��

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Sarah: I did some alternative formats work too, which I loved—being able to remediate documents. And then from there, I became office manager and access counselor consultant. And I threw in my hat for the Assistant Director, ‘cause I was like, “There’s something about this job that I just didn’t wanna leave.” I really liked my team, which is completely different from where I started. But like Taylor was saying, I just really like being a part of a student’s journey. And then just the more I learned about the ADA and all the different policies that you bring together—you couple that with—

Miri: Like Title II, which we know now.��

Sarah: Title II, which we learned today in trivia. You take all of these policies, and the law, your built-in compassion and sensibility, and your wanting to help that student achieve what they wanted. You use all of that to come up with a set of accommodations. It sounds so ridiculous, but it’s so much more than that. That’s the big drive that’s really kept me here. I joined the board—gosh—

Miri: The ORAHEAD board?

Sarah: The ORAHEAD board… what, 2017 maybe?

Jewls: Oh, like maybe a year or two after I did?

Sarah: Yeah.

Jewls: Maybe?

Miri: Were you still both working at PSU then?

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Jewls: �۱𲹳�.��

Sarah: And one of our coworkers comes out of her office. She’s like, “Would anybody like to join the ORAHEAD board as treasurer?” And I was like, “Me.” Because when I was office manager, I was a financial person. I mean, admittedly, that’s a good resume builder. You know? And I was like, this drive of, “I wanna be in this field—and yeah. I wanna be on a board.” So I became treasurer, and I’ve been here ever since, ’cause nobody wants to be the treasurer.��

Jewls: And it’s because you do it amazingly well and nobody can measure up.

Sarah: Oh, I don’t know about that. But being on the board is really fun. You get to plan these awesome conferences.

Jewls: It’s amazing.��

Sarah: Yeah, that’s the best part. And then just learning, getting to meet people on a regular basis. We have board meetings and we discuss the conferences, but we also discuss initiatives we wanna do. And, that’s just been really fun. I don’t know if that answered your question, but—

Miri: Perfect.��

Sarah: Yeah. Thanks.��

Miri: So how did you get involved in both in ORAHEAD and disability advocacy?��

Jewls: Oh, boy. Okay. I had a very circuitous pathway. I started my higher education journey as an acting major down at USC. Ended up coming back to Portland because LA is an evil place when you have anxiety, ADHD, and a lot of other things. So I went to Portland State and I got my degree in Psychology. But I decided I wanted to be a historian and ended up in a master’s program at Portland State for History—specifically medieval history. I was doing Latin. I actually taught Latin at PCC for their non-credit program. And I was working on my master’s—done all my coursework, done my comps, was almost done with my thesis. Then I got divorced and sick. Very sick. And it became clear my pathway I had planned for myself—to get my PHD and become a professor of History—was not possible, because that would’ve been moving. And I had two little kids at the time when I was a single mom and had an abusive husband. Ex-husband. It was a very difficult time. So I had to rethink things a little bit and in thinking about it, I always knew I wanted to teach. But what I found that I loved the most as a graduate teaching assistant, was when I worked one-on-one with the students with disabilities. I loved that. So I did a right turn and ended up shifting my master’s degree—much to my federal financial aid chagrin—to a master’s in rehabilitation counseling. And decided I was going to be a rehabilitation counselor and work with students with disabilities. That’s when I got sick and had to stop working. I did finish school, but I couldn’t work for a while and eventually got to the point where I could work, got the job at Portland State, and do my dream job working with students. I love working with students. I love figuring out what works, thinking outside the box, getting to use the creativity and the excitement of having something that like—yeah. God, there’s nothing better. Like, damn it, when it really works, it works, and it’s so good. And when it doesn’t, it can be heart-crushing. But when it works, it’s so good. Now I love helping others to help others. That’s my new favorite thing. There you go. That’s my circuitous pathway.��

Miri: From everyone I’ve talked to this weekend, there’s been almost no direct pathways into this. Almost everyone I’ve talked to has been like, “I was studying something at this school. I started doing student employment, then just kind of fell into this role. I’d realized that it’s what I was meant for.” Or someone who’s like, “Yeah, I was planning on doing computer science and I was getting a degree in that. Then I realized that was really stupid, and the way the teachers talked to people was really mean, so I wanted to fix that.”

Sarah: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Miri: Like, just a lot of circuitous roots into finding this.��

Sarah: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Which is super interesting, ’cause that’s all about people discovering their passion for this instead of something that they wake up one day when they’re eight and decide they want to do. I’m sure there are a few of those. But it’s really interesting how this is something that sticks to people once they start doing it.��

Jewls: It is. Once it grabs hold of you, there’s very few of us that let go of it. We get burned out because we are vastly under-resourced. I don’t know that there’s any single one of us that would say that our offices have enough resources.��

Miri: And how much does having the ORAHEAD community of like-minded and similarly under-resourced people from other education centers help with that under-resourced, do you think? Like, being able to get people together and combine thoughts and ideas—how much does that affect what you’ve done or what you think other people have been able to do?

Jewls: It makes all the difference. I don’t think that we could do what we do without the think tank and the feel tank.��

Sarah: Feel tank. �۱𲹳�.��

Jewls: That is ORAHEAD. Yes, we share ideas, but we also share the moments of joy and the moments of exasperation that come with our jobs. It’s a think tank and a feel tank.

Sarah: Yeah. I look at like, “Why have I been at PSU for 10 years?” All of my jobs, I stayed at for long periods of time because it’s hard for me to leave a job. It’s hard for me to disappoint people. I don’t wanna quit. I’m needed and can’t leave because whatever. But having a community, like ORAHEAD, being, “Wait a second, no, no, no, no. I’m in this job because this is cool. What we’re doing is pretty awesome. No, we’re going to fight back against these rigid policies of schools and instructors. We’re going to provide accessibility—a pathway for students that are trying to achieve the same thing we did in our own educations.” The fight is definitely a big part of it.

Jewls: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Taylor: I think it’s been really valuable to connect with other professionals in the field. There’s a lot of times we’re navigating really complex systems and policies and processes. Every student we’re working with is unique. They have many strengths, many different backgrounds, and ways of navigating the world, so no two students are alike. Every student that comes into our office is a new opportunity to understand something you’ve never understood before, right? It can be challenging because you don’t necessarily have all the answers right away. And having ORAHEAD and people that get the work, they understand the work, has been invaluable and just navigating really complex situations and finding ways to advocate and help students get what they need.

Miri: Yeah, that was something that was one of the presentations earlier—a group discussion about how to deal with different situations. So different people from different schools came up and asked the group, “Hey, this has been a weird situation that has come up in my professional work. How should I deal with this? What is the right answer?” Having a space where you can ask that question and get different, sometimes contrary answers, is important. Because if you just ask one professional, they’re gonna come at it from only their perspective. Especially the sizes of different schools—like PCC is way bigger, has way more resources than a ton of other community colleges in the state—just because we are based in a city of over a million people with, like, 50,000 students—��

Jewls: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Miri: —every year. As opposed to somewhere out in eastern Oregon or southern Oregon. Or southeastern Oregon, where there’s approximately one person per cactus.

Taylor: That’s another interesting thing about these conferences too. Specifically, we are all coming from higher Ed, whether that’s a community college or a four-year or private institution. There’s someone that’s likely going to have a similar setup as you. And so, kind of what you were just explaining, Eastern Oregon University doesn’t necessarily translate to PCC, right?

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: Because PCC is serving thousands of students, and our population is not as big as that. But in conferences like this, we still get the opportunity to connect with schools that are more of a similar size and demographic. So it’s cool to be able to have this as a resource and have that connection with other professionals that you don’t feel so alone or isolated in the work you’re doing.

Miri: Yeah.

Taylor: And sometimes it can happen that way. I know, just in universities in general, there’s a lot of silos—a lot of people that are just on their own doing their own work and moving through it. With our roles specifically, it’s so much student engagement, so much faculty engagement and staff and moving parts. There’s just so many different aspects to the job you have to be in the know about, and having multiple moving parts makes it more complex. Being able to, like I said, getting to understand different perspectives, get more ideas from professionals that may have had more experience in that specific situation—or they’ve navigated something similar—getting varying viewpoints to problem-solve through those situations has just been really awesome.

Jewls: Yeah. It is amazing to be able to connect with other people from other universities that have the same type as you and get those perspectives. It’s also interesting to engage with those that don’t have the same type and you can get some other perspectives. Regardless, it’s like I said yesterday morning, “How many people in our lives do we have, especially if we’re in a one-person office or a small office, do we engage with on a daily basis that get it?”

Sarah: Yeah.

Jewls: I mean, my wife is awesome. She really is.��

Miri: Let’s hear it for wives.��

Jewls: I mean, like, she’s amazing, and I honestly say as wives go that aren’t in the field, she gets it as much as she can. But she doesn’t get it the way that my colleagues here get it. And to be able to engage with other people that get it—and I don’t have to explain it—first, there’s this shorthand to it. To be able to let that part go when there’s that one professor that does that thing, right? And you go look at me in the eyes and, “Oh, yeah, I know that one.” Right? And it’s just like, “You see me.” That’s huge.��

Sarah: I think you were talking about the Listserv in real time, hosted by former board member Jeffrey Larson. But, that is just a true example of how critically we have to think about the issues we do. We can’t just look it up in a book and go, “Okay, there’s the answer. We’re good.”

Miri: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: We have to take so many things into perspective—yes, the law, the student’s identity, the specific school you’re working with, the instructor and their whatever.��

Miri: Your budget.��

Sarah: Your budget. So many things. You have to take all, and that’s the really cool thing about this job. That is how you do individual justice for somebody, ’cause you have to think about all that. That’s these conferences.

Jewls: �۱𲹳�.��

Sarah: That’s where you feel that.��

Miri: Mm-hmm. I like how this conference has fairly equal representation between different sizes of schools. I mean, for some reason PCC sent about 37 people. Um. But, like, the big schools—Oregon State, University of Oregon—have the same number of voices in this room as smaller schools, like Reed, or very small schools like rural community colleges. And having equal voices who are able to raise different levels of concern is important and interesting, because a big school can be like, “Oh yeah, throw money at it.”��

Sarah: ����-��ܳ�.��

Miri: There’s hoops that they have to jump through and people who are like, “Oh, I don’t want to spend that money.” But, there is the money to spend, as opposed to some very small schools where they’re like, “Well, our budget is $4 and most of this sandwich.” Which is a thing we have to think about as disability advocates and people who are trying to make things easier for our students, even though that costs money sometimes. Like getting interpreters for classes, which will be $400 a week per class. Or getting extra accessible technology in classrooms or online, which can be who knows how much. Which is a different level of struggle for every level of education—

Jewls: Mm-hmm.

Miri: —in our state. And having that all roughly equally represented here has been really interesting to see and hear.��

Jewls: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Miri: So that’s a valuable piece of this that is underappreciated from anyone who doesn’t know.��

Jewls: Yeah. That’s part of what keeping the price and the location accessible has been a focus of the board as we’ve planned this. That’s something that certainly we’ve talked about and a concern as we plan what we’re doing. Like how much are we paying a keynote if we do this? And can we do this? What are we doing? How many meals do we provide? If we do that, can we do this? How much can we charge? It’s a lot of thought.

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jewls: But we wanna make sure there can be people attending from all of the different�� colleges. That’s a big deal.

Miri: So, there is one more thing I wanted to ask. You mentioned that you did classroom assistance for blind students.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Miri: Was there special Ed training you had to go through? To be able to do that? What was that like?

Sarah: Yeah. So it was facilitated by none other than Jewls Griesmeyer-Krentz.

Jewls: That is indeed true.��

Sarah: It was actually a day-long training. We learned about the history of the ADA, of course, but we learned a lot about blind culture. And I’ll let Jewls speak to it too, because she was a creator of the training materials. But I remember the training—we got to learn, “Hey, these are the core things you’re going to do and this is how you do them.” We had blind students attend the training so we could work with them directly. A lot of guidance from Jewls. But yeah, why don’t you talk more? You could probably talk better about what that training was like.

Jewls: For me, it was really important that that training, first, have a critical foundation in disability studies essentially. But basically a social model so the classroom assistants were not entering into it from a pity perspective or engaging in microaggressions. It would be very easy in that role to do that. So we��

Miri: What would that be like?��

Jewls: Um, well, for example, if the professor asked a question of the student, the classroom assistant might butt in an answer. Or more frequently, the professor might ask the classroom assistant what the student’s name is—the classroom assistant might just answer what the student’s name is instead of not say anything and let the student answer. That’s an example of a microaggression that would happen frequently. So we would practice on communication, problem-solving, and boundaries. I tried to think about what were all the things I wish I knew when I started helping people and developed a training around those things and included ways to be a human guide that made sense and ways to work with somebody. Mostly, I included the blind students to speak for themselves about what worked for them and what didn’t. I think that’s what made the most sense.��

Miri: What do descriptions for a blind student look like in a classroom setting—especially in something more complicated, like biology or chemistry, whether it could be color-coded diagrams, for instance?��

Sarah: So, yeah, it’s also a good idea to work with instructors to say, “Hey, when you’re writing things on the board, make sure you’re describing them,” in a very general sense. A classroom assistant might be available to say, “Oh, the instructor is drawing a chart on the board. It’s got two columns with headings, A and B at the top, and then on the sides we have X and Y,” and filling in things. And that’s where it can get a little lost, because if you have a classroom assistant who is a Humanities major—like an art major—assisting for somebody in a chemistry class, there might be some gaps there, right? Maybe the instructor has written something down completely foreign to them, so—��

Jewls: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Sarah: It’s great to be able to match a chemistry major to a student, but that’s not always possible. You have what you have as far as student employees. That’s why classroom assistant should be providing visual descriptions or descriptions of things that would otherwise not be seen by the students—so things they’re writing on the board, things happening in the classroom that could use some contextual information about. Like, “Oh, everybody’s got up and went to this side of the room, so we’re gonna do that too.”

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Sarah: If they’re watching a video, maybe they need to know that video includes a person with a very sad face while they’re describing something. We try to get universal design a lot, ’cause there’s so much that can be left out. Audio descriptions of films, asking instructors to be a lot more descriptive of what they’re writing on the board—I’m sure you have more.��

Jewls: Yeah, there’s a lot of working with instructors directly to plan ahead so that there’s less reliance on the classroom assistance and more reliance on universal design. But classroom accessibility and classroom access, where there’s a gap, classroom assistance provides a bridge. The biggest thing is a classroom assistant deals in content, not interpretation. As Sarah talked about, they gotta know enough to be able to say, “It’s a theta, not a circle with a line through it.”

Miri: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jewls: They’ve gotta have enough common vocabulary with the class. Ideally, you wouldn’t need a lot of classroom assistance if professors were used to teaching classes in an accessible way and had their materials to the alternative formats department in a timely manner so the student had alternative-format versions of anything shown in class.��

Miri: Yeah. It seems like everyone in this line of work, the ultimate end goal of their work is that position doesn’t have to exist anymore.��

Jewls: Yeah. Or that that position has changed.��

Miri: Yes. Making classrooms universally accessible, having everything be prepared with universal design in mind, having everything available in two, three, four formats for all students’ access levels. It would be the ideal. And that’s something we’re all trying to work for every day.

Jewls: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: You know, starting from on a student-by-student level, ’cause that’s where it has to start. Those students have to have something.��

Sarah: An instructor describing what they’re writing on the board—it’s not just helpful to a blind student. It’s helpful to a student who’s behind in class and like, “Oh, I don’t remember what that symbol means.”

Miri: Or missed a week from illness.��

Sarah: Or missed a week from illness, right? Or they’re colorblind, they can’t see the different colors.��

Jewls: Or they’re taking notes and they have to have their head down.��

Sarah: Absolutely.��

Jewls: There’s any number of reasons.��

Sarah: Hence the term “universal.”��

Miri: Yeah. There’s a lot of talk about intersectionality when it comes to different disabilities, or disability and gender, disability and race. But the most frequent and most ignored intersectionality is between every single person having an easier time learning—whether or not you are a six-foot-one, able-bodied, white football player, or if you are a disabled student of color.��

Jewls: Universal access helps everybody.

Miri: Exactly.��

Taylor: Yeah, definitely benefits everyone.��

Jewls: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Which is the hope, I think.��

Jewls: I think that is.

Miri: It’s not called “partial design.”��

Jewls: Yeah, no.��

Miri: Yeah. Thank you guys so much for talking to me. Again, my favorite part of this job is hearing smart people talk about the things they know about. So this is always so much fun for me—just listening and learning. And, you know, I ask questions that I’m curious about too.��

Jewls: Oh, this has been a lot of fun.��

Sarah: First time recording a podcast.��

Episode Outro

Miri: You’re listening to Let’s Talk! ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability awareness and culture. Working in accessibility is not a glamorous position. You’re perpetually underfunded, understaffed, and underappreciated. One of the things I noticed at ORAHEAD this year is the stark difference between PCC’s representatives and those from across the rest of the state. Of the roughly 60-70 people in attendance, PCC made up nearly 10 of them. Plus, a lot of the people I talked to, not even while recording, were the representative out of a total team of two at their institution. Having to handle the caseload of their entire school by themselves, alongside advocating for their students and their department, the resilience with which they work is, by the traditional meaning, incredible. A lot of them have been involved in this kind of work since back when they were students, working to provide access to students like them, and to make the world just a little bit better, each day at a time.

Ending Disclaimer

Kylo: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk! – ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resources Department, and the PCC Multimedia Department. We air new episodes on , our Spotify channel, and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective

Show Intro and Disclaimer

Kylo: You are listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk!, Is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, . On Spotify, on�� , and .

Meet Here Together

Asher: Welcome back listeners to another episode on Let’s Talk!. My name is Asher, and today I’m joined by representatives from the . Can you guys start by introducing yourselves to our listeners?

Angela: Asher, thank you for having us. My name is Angela Martin. I’m the executive director of the Here Together Oregon Coalition.

Asher: Thanks for joining us, Angela! And, Alesha?

Alesha: Hi everyone. I am Alesha. I am also with the Here Together Coalition. I lead communications for our team. Thank you for having me today. I will just pause and say that there’s a really strong chance that Angela’s gonna be your gal for all these questions.��

Asher: That’s totally fine. Thank you so much guys for taking the time out to talk to us. We did hear from you from our from the KBOO Live; . Thank you so much.��

Coalition Mission Origins

Asher: What is “Here Together” Coalition, and what does the organization do, and also what’s the mission?

Angela: “Here Together” came together in 2019 in response to a need for funding wraparound services. Our community had said “yes” to affordable housing bonds, so building the structures that were desperately needed. But, we needed the funding for the services and the rent support, that really build that bridge. So, the Here Together Coalition was the champion of the regional supportive housing services measure. Back in 2019, it was passed by voters in 2020.

Asher: Is that the origin story or is there more to it? And what’s the gap that was filled when Here Together was created?

Angela: Those are great questions. Here Together was formed in response to a need for funding that would provide services to people experiencing homelessness. Yes, an affordable home is a critical piece of that, but without rent support, case management, job training, access to medical health, behavioral health; we know that people will not be entirely successful. We need both, housing plus services, to help people transition from long periods of homelessness to a life of stability and health.

Asher: Yeah, definitely. I feel like that’s a very important thing, especially with the current state of homelessness here in Portland.��

Portland Homelessness Today

Asher: How would you describe that right now in your perspective?

Angela: I would describe the current state of homelessness as heartbreaking, frustrating, and politically fraught. And, the end result is that our neighbors who find themselves forced to sleep without a roof over their head, or are struggling to hold on to the roof. They’re the ones caught in the crossfire of this chaos. That often feels like what is standing in place of a system. It’s important to understand that Here Together is unique in this coalition, because we purposely brought folks together around a proverbial table who don’t always see eye to eye, who don’t always come from the same lived experience. So, our coalition is providers, it’s people with lived experience, it’s leaders of faith in its business associations. So, as you can imagine, the conversations around our table can be very robust, there’s a lot of learning, and we don’t always start off in a place of agreement, but we work toward that agreement. That’s something that I believe really makes the coalition unique and important, because that’s what the public is doing. Coming at this from different perspectives, all seeking the same thing. A future where homelessness is rare and brief, in our community.

Asher: Definitely. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Just the whole idea of the community coming together in such a strong way against homelessness is such a big thing. And, I didn’t really even know about homelessness until I came to the States. Although I was born in Texas, at a very young age, I moved out of the states and I was very sheltered, I feel like. Only until I started working and then coming to school here in Oregon did I just see the state of how downtown Portland is like, and just the homelessness of the different people there. I started to educate myself with that, and I’m so glad that you’re here to educate me also by just answering questions and stuff.��

Myths and Root Causes

Asher: What are some common misconceptions people have about homelessness in this city? I’m also asking for myself too, because I feel like there’s a lot of different sorts of misconceptions about homelessness. In the idea of “they’re choosing to be homeless”.

Angela: We’ll address some of those, but I first wanna start off by giving a lot of credit to the public. The public is very sophisticated. Most people I talk to understand that homelessness happens at the intersection of systemic failures. An economy that is not delivering jobs that pay. A housing wage, a rental market that has escalated, beyond the reach of majority of folks in our community. Then that intersection of personal crisis; whether it’s a job loss, experience of domestic violence, divorce, or struggling with untreated mental health or substance use disorder. The intersection, where there is only shreds of a safety net, is where homelessness occurs. In terms of misconceptions? Yes, Asher, I do hear some people say those common tropes; “people choose homelessness” or “they want to live the homeless life”. But, anyone that has spent any time, getting to know who is homeless in our community, having conversations. That myth is quickly stripped away. For example, anyone who goes out and sees some of our partners, like the folks at Cultivate Initiatives, who run job training programs, see a line around the block of people who are experiencing homelessness, lining up for an opportunity to have a job internship. So, they see that homelessness isn’t born out of laziness. It is born out of lack of opportunity for gaining employment skills, getting into the workplace so that you have a job that helps you pay the rent.

Asher: Thank you for answering that question. Yeah, that’s a great one.��

Asher: I totally agree with you on the idea of housing prices just skyrocketing in recent years. And, it’s even difficult for me, who has a job, to be able to afford just rent and live paycheck to paycheck kind of deal.

Angela: it wasn’t always this way. When I look back at the data in 1970s, here in Portland, Oregon, somebody working a minimum wage job was able to afford a modest two bedroom apartment. That person today, working a minimum wage job at our higher minimum wage, is over a thousand dollars a month short from affording that same apartment. So, in that generation, we have seen wages stagnate, we have seen rental prices go up, and the supply of affordable housing go down. That is the math problem behind our homeless crisis.

Asher: $1,000. That’s hard to believe. And you say that’s…��

Angela: 1970s, is when you could work a minimum wage job in Portland, Oregon, and afford a modest two bedroom apartment. Today, there is no way for somebody working a minimum wage job to afford a modest two bedroom, let alone, a one bedroom apartment. So, we’re setting people up to fail, and far too many of us are on the brink of homelessness any given month.

Barriers to Getting Help

Asher: How do individuals experiencing homelessness navigate services and where do they get stuck in the whole process of things? Just the whole idea that there are a lot of people who are homeless, and I feel like there’s a lot that get tangled in the system of trying to get the help that they need. They probably need different sorts of needs and it’s hard to just figure out what needs come in first kind of thing.

Angela: I’m gonna start off with something that we don’t even think of as services. And, that is taking care of your personal needs. I’m gonna talk about it from a female perspective; there are women experiencing homelessness, living unsheltered, who have to start off their day thinking about where am I gonna go to the restroom? How am I going to find a place for a shower? How am I going to just take care of my basic needs? I share this because it really defies some of that myth; going back to the question you asked of, “what myths are there?”. That there is this lazy homeless life. It’s actually the opposite. Piecing together personal care needs, feeding yourself, safety… All of this consumes so much of a person’s mental energy. That there is often little left to thinking about how am I going to access things that feel opaque to me; “I don’t know where they are. How am I gonna access those so that I can get myself out of this situation?”. And, then you have the issue of trust. When you are living in a system that has frankly failed you, you start to develop natural trust issues. So, when someone comes and says, “Hey, we wanna help!”, “Hey, sign up here for services!”, and you end up on a wait list, with no end in sight, that erodes your trust a little bit more. Or, when you accept help and go to a shelter where you are actually feeling less safe than you were in your tent, or your car that erodes trust. So, one of the barriers that people experiencing homelessness must first face is, it’s hard to get through any given day and get your personal needs met and have enough left to think about how am I going to make a plan? How am I gonna access services that sometimes feel like they’re rejecting me?

Asher: Just thinking about it. It does sound like there are a lot of just contributing factors of trying to get the help needed but, like you said, it requires trust in the long run of things. I feel like in a lot of situations there are a lot of wait lists because the need is just so big, especially here in Portland, as far as homelessness goes.��

Here Together Role

Asher: How does Here Together fit into all that? I’m curious to know.

Angela: So, our goal, as I mentioned earlier; we were born out of the need for wraparound services to be complimentary with affordable housing that was being built. Now, several things are true. We do not have enough affordable housing in this community, and we do not have enough services. But, we do have an opportunity to take this regional resource and leverage it to the best of its ability. And, that’s what Here Together is about. We seek to listen to the needs of people experiencing homelessness, the expertise of people who have put themselves on the front lines of solving homelessness, the social workers, the behavioral health specialists. The Here Together Oregon Coalition does not provide direct services. Instead, we create the space to discuss and debate how the programs are structured, how the funding is distributed across our community so that we can realize a future where homelessness is rare and brief. Asher, it might be interesting to take the conversation in this direction. I just wanna be really forthright and honest with the listeners.��

Asher: Yeah, for sure. Add anything you would like.

Public Debate and Bridge Analogy

Angela: Part of our role right now is to help understand where the public is in its debate and its demands around homelessness. And, in doing that, I’ve learned a few things. Number one, for far too long we treated public frustration, anger, perhaps even a little bit of fear, as something to be shamed and not named. And, I really do believe that was the wrong approach. Because, what I’ve learned is that someone can, both, hold frustration and hold compassion in their hand at the same time. And, that’s where the public is. We need to respect those feelings of frustration while also uplifting the compassion and empathy that, I know, most people have for their neighbors experiencing homelessness. By doing that, we help the public get into, a more full way, the most important role they have; and that is continuing to demand that our elected leaders invest in solving this issue, versus what I see happening right now. And that is the public getting into the role of experts in demanding particular solutions. That’s become a very dangerous place for us to be in the public absolutely should demand, “we wanna see homelessness as rare and brief. We wanna see a reduction in the number of tents on our streets. We wanna see people in our community thriving”. But, when it gets to the place that our elected leaders feel compelled to listen to how the problem gets solved from the public. We’ve gone in the wrong direction. Let me give you an analogy, think about the I5 bridge. Right now there’s a robust public debate; should it have more lanes for cars? Should it have infrastructure for light rail? Should it have both? Or something else entirely? That is exactly the right conversation for the public to be having. That’s democracy working. But, nobody is asking the public to calculate the load tolerances or to design the foundation. We don’t put that engineering up for a vote and, if we did, if the loudest political pressure overrode the structural engineers. The bridge would fall down. And that’s precisely what we have done with homelessness. We have allowed political pressure rather than data and people who know this work, including people who’ve lived it, to drive the tactics around how we solve it. And that place that we’re in right now? Where public demand for any one tactic like, let’s do sweeps, let’s have this type of shelter and not that type of shelter. That is complicating an already complex social problem.

Asher: That’s a great iteration of just the I5 bridge.��

How Listeners Can Help

Asher: How can we, as well as, the listeners and myself help as a community in the process of making homelessness brief and short.

Angela: There’s several things the public, can and I hope, will do. Number one, continue to center the needs of our community. I believe the public needs to continue demanding that our elected leaders address this problem, make investments, find solutions. That is an important role for the public to play. The education piece, exactly what you’re doing with this program, Asher. “Why are people homeless? What are the myths?”… Continue to educate ourselves. The third thing is we need recenter and ask for this problem to be addressed by those who have done the schooling gotten, the degrees lived, the experience firsthand; those are the folks closest to what the solutions need to look like, and we need to reinvest in trusting those. Just as we trust our engineers to build a sound bridge, I trust our social workers to build a sound homeless response system.

Asher: I’m hoping that a lot of our listeners, who are listening to this, are able to help out in the community. Whether, it’s providing food for those who need it or, like you said, reaching out to local leaders, “Hey, what are you doing in this situation with the homelessness? We wanna know what’s going on.”, educating ourselves and asking the right questions. I really hope I’m able to make this podcast, the best it can be by asking the right ones, especially to you.��

Angela: Asher, you’re helping all of us understand this more, and I hope that the conversation doesn’t stop here.��

Community Conversations Program

Angela: In fact, one of the things Here Together is doing is hosting . You can go to our website; and sign up to host a community conversation. What does that look like? That is you bringing together 10 of your friends in your place of work, your place of worship, your backyard. We provide a trained speaker; these are folks who maybe themselves had experienced homelessness or they work on the front lines as a social worker, as a case manager. We come and have a honest conversation with your community about what’s working, what’s not, and what we can do together to make improvements. Those community conversations are a really important way for all of us to continue, working for the community that we all want.

Asher: I’ll have to look into that. That sounds very interesting. Getting a lot of my coworkers together and just talking about homelessness. I feel like that would be fun.

Angela: Asher, it is actually fun. Just last week, I hosted a community conversation. I was invited by the folks at “”, which is a senior living center right near Lloyd’s Center. So, I got to be in a room of 40 individuals, all of them retired senior citizens. It was such a robust conversation. I learned something, I believe they learned something, and we all walked outta there with a renewed sense that we’re part of a community that cares, part of a community that wants to find a better way forward. Alesha, have I missed something that you would suggest I add to the conversation?

Alesha: No, I am really glad that you threw in some information about our community conversations. I feel they’ve been a really strong space for people to both hold their frustration and their compassion in the same hand, and would really encourage any listener to go to our website to check out more information about those.

Asher: Switching gears back into the whole idea of figuring out what the issue is with homelessness.��

Policies Funding and Treatment Gaps

Asher: What policies at the local or state level are helping and which ones are falling short?

Angela: We have a lot of policies, a lot of strategies that work quite well, for the individuals. Things like case management services coupled with rental vouchers to make housing affordable and accessible. That’s the formula that works for a lot of folks who’ve been experiencing homelessness for a long time. Where we see complications? Well, first, the biggest complication coming at us is the constant fluctuation of funding. I am sure many of your listeners are aware our federal government has been defunding or slashing the money available for housing healthcare support services. Well, when the federal government decreases the amount of money it spends on these things, we have to make up the difference. And, folks in this community have stepped up, but we’re now having to stretch those dollars even further because the funding holes are getting bigger. Number two, we are seeing an increased acuity of folks experiencing homelessness with an onslaught of cheap and dangerous drugs, far too few slots for treatment and recovery, coupled with untreated mental health, and far too slots for addressing a person’s mental health needs. All of these have come together to form, I would say, the “perfect storm”. But, I don’t wanna use the word “perfect”. “A storm”, that is really driving a lot of the complications in our system right now.

Asher: Yeah, that sounds so complicated. I totally understand that. Especially with government, just like slashing funds and everything, it’s very difficult, especially just for those of us who aren’t even having to face homelessness. I can’t imagine how difficult it is on that level of services needing to make up the funds; even with community members trying to pitch in and everything. How are the efforts in that, if you don’t mind me asking?

Angela: How are the efforts in making up the funds?

Asher: Yes. How does that look like?

Budget Landscape and Deficits

Angela: Well, let me give you a snapshot of the funding landscape. This snapshot is from 2024, so there are ways in which it’s already changing. In 2024, our regional supportive housing services measure, this is the one that was voter passed, paid for more than 40% of services, rental vouchers, case management. So, 40% of our homeless services system was paid for through local resources. Federal Government was contributing about 17% towards what it costs to keep people housed and connected to services. That number is going down even more, the 17% government is contributing. We see risks on the near horizon and out a year or two with expected cuts to food stamps, Medicaid, and a big shift in how the federal government funds affordable housing. Our community is gonna have to absorb that. Either through adding to local resources or cutting those services so that fewer people get access to it. And that’s the debate we’re having right now. As the budget season is upon us, we know that Multnomah County is facing a $68 million reduction in how much money is available to fund homeless services across the county. The debate on how we make up for that is real and will include some painful decisions. Painful decisions about how do we contract a system, who isn’t going to get services, and what are we gonna do to prevent people from being exited from a shelter that’s closing and landing right back up on the street. Nobody wants that outcome. So, now is the time that the public has an opportunity to weigh in and, again, talk about their desired outcomes. Letting your elected officials know; we don’t want to see people ending back up on the streets. We’ve got to continue making headway. So, I’ll leave it there.

Asher: Thanks for giving me the rundown of just the budgeting of houseless funding and everything. I feel like that’s very educational and for a lot of listeners who don’t even know about the situation at hand, I feel like that’s where we need to understand just how difficult it is.��

Sorting Headlines and Trust

Angela: Asher, it’s so hard for the public right now who are working to pay attention to their lives, their kids, their work, and then they’re able to keep an eye on this through some headlines. Well, the headlines have been chaotic. You hear that, “The City of Portland has found one hundred million dollars it didn’t know its had”. So, you get this impression that there’s more money than we ever knew and more money than we need, and then you hear “Multnomah County has a big budget deficit”. What is true? What is not true? It becomes very complicated. Here are the facts. Both things are true. There are short term, one-time monies that the City of Portland identified. Some of which can be spent, again, for a one time expenditure on homeless services. And, Multnomah County will be planning out its next year’s budget with $68 million less than it’s spent this year. So, tough decisions are going to have to be made. It’s likely also to be true that when the City of Portland and our elected officials work on their budget, our budget, the City of Portland’s budget for the next year, they will also be facing tighter budget than the year before. So, those one-time monies might lead to the impression of, “Hey, our local governments just got money coming out everywhere.”. That isn’t the case moving forward, and our system needs to rely on ongoing services, not one time infusions of money.

Asher: I feel like with that kind of money just gets moved around a lot and like it gets placed into places that we don’t even realize it gets placed in? And, correct me if I’m wrong with that too. I have no idea!

Angela: Hey, you’re not alone. You’re not alone. Even people who strive to stay on top of the information find themselves wondering, “what’s happening over here? What’s happening over there?”. It’s hard to track it all. And, I think a person shouldn’t have to do that. I always suggest to folks, find out who you trust. Is it your local homeless services provider? Is it an organization like Here Together? Is it another housing advocacy organization? And, look to them to help distill the information about what’s happening and ask them hard questions. But, trying to sort it all out individually, it can be overwhelming.

Asher: Oh yeah, definitely. There’s so many different kinds of information just all over the place, like you were saying, and it’s hard to know which one is true and which one is false, and not just about this.

Angela: Yeah. And, there’s a concerted effort to encourage the public to distrust the people who actually have the information the organizations and the people closest to, the issue. So, not only was it difficult, but there’s a cadre of political consultants and messengers who, for the last six years, have been working to help the public mistrust the folks providing services; casting them as the homeless industrial complex. That framing was never analysis, it was a political strategy designed to defund services and destroy trust in the people delivering them. So, now the public having had this play out for years and years, is left in a place of “who should I trust? Who can I trust?”. And. That’s a really hard place to be.

Asher: Oh yeah, definitely. And, the same thing just ties into the homelessness situation of, “who can I trust?”. I feel like that’s the biggest thing.��

Partners, Newsletter, and Data

Asher: What are some organizations that your coalition is in partnership with, that we can trust? In a world where there’s a lot of things that are not trustworthy, and are “not sure what is true”.

Angela: Yeah. Folks that wanna know more, learn more, about how we partner; I would encourage them to look at our website. Because, we do list coalition partners there. But, even more important, Alesha does an amazing job putting together a monthly news analysis. It’s a compendium of what’s happening, what are the data points, where can I learn more? Along with those narrative stories, the personal stories, of success and analysis of the policies that need to be improved in order to drive more success. So, we put out a monthly newsletter called . That’s one way to just stay on top of it, be able to follow links to the latest stories and connect with organizations delivering services, as well as, associations that are standing behind the services that are being delivered.

Asher: Thanks for that. Yeah, I’ll definitely put a link to “Happening Now”. Is there a way to access this newsletter, or do we need to sign up for it?

Angela: You can read past editions online, for those that don’t wanna sign up for something. But, if you want more current information, you can get it delivered to your inbox by simply signing up. I would also point out, our local governments do have a wealth of information available to you. has a data rich site where you can see inflow and outflow. They’ve developed a by name list of who is experiencing homelessness. No, you’re not gonna get the name of anybody. You’re not gonna see that “Stan” is experiencing homelessness. But, you’re gonna be able to see that every month in Multnomah County, about 1,400 people become homeless and, that same month, about 1,100 or 1,200 people escape homelessness. So, you’re gonna see the math and the charts that explain what you see in the streets. That while the solutions are happening, every month, services are being delivered, the problem does feel like it’s getting worse. And, through this new database, you’re able to understand, in a way you weren’t able to before, what exactly is behind that. So, I encourage folks, go check that out. has a website that helps you see what’s happening at the regional level; they actually tally the numbers. “How many housing rental vouchers have been delivered?”, “How many eviction preventions have happened?”, “How many new shelters have been sustained or built thanks to these regional dollars?”. So, you can see those numbers right there. And, then if you really wanna dig in, the Metro website also includes a link to every single county’s quarterly and annual report. These are data rich documents that show you the accounting, show you what’s happened, talk about the results, where what’s worked, and what hasn’t. Now, fair warning, these are 100 page documents. So, you can read them yourself, or you can read our analysis of them as they come out.

Asher: Yeah. I was going to say, that’s a lot of information. I don’t know how I would even ask the proper questions and get through the right channels to get the information needed. A hundred pages! That’s impressive, honestly! Thanks for that, Angela, I appreciate it.��

Biggest Changes Needed

Asher: What changes would make the biggest difference right now for this population? You’ve been saying that there’s a lot of different sort of circumstances going on, but at this very moment, in this certain time, 2026, what’s the biggest difference that would turn the tables for homelessness?

Angela: Greater collaboration and coordination. No one single source of money is going to be able to provide the services and the rental supports and the housing at the scale we need. So, we need to be braiding a lot of different sources of funding, federal, state, local. So, the biggest improvement would be in mapping the sources of funding, laying that against the population that is experiencing homelessness, so that we have a more comprehensive understanding of the opportunity and a more comprehensive understanding of what piece each of those funding sources contributes to the solution. It’s complicated work, but we have to go that way. Because, again, no one single source of funding is gonna get this done. The next thing, that will make the biggest difference, is we need to reinvest in trusting in the experts. I’ll go back to the bridge analogy. I absolutely will never cross a bridge that was built based on public input of how much cement, how much steel, et cetera, et cetera. But, yet we are allowing a homeless services system to be built that doesn’t fully center the expertise of the people who are doing this work. From our local experts that work internal to the government, to the providers who work external to the people who live it. Those are the folks that are closest to the issue and need to be the ones we rely on for developing the solution.

Asher: Thank you for sharing that.��

Success Stories

Asher: Do you have any success stories with your coalition, with people you’ve helped, or just experiences that have stayed with you and shaped how you see this work with homelessness, Angela?

Angela: Alesha, please chime in if you want. But, really, knowing the successes is what sustain us; getting to be close to the success. Two weekends ago, we got to partner with someone I consider a friend and a colleague, Kelly Clendenon, to share his documentary of resilience, success, giving back. Kelly is someone who shares, in this documentary, how he struggled with both homelessness and addiction. And, he is now on the other side of that; giving back to his community, helping with a shower program that provides a little ray of hope for folks experiencing homelessness today. That to me is the full circle. When people are given an opportunity, given access to the services, to get their needs met; their instincts are to give back to the community, so that they might be able to help the next person who is suffering in our streets. That full circle gives me so much hope that when you invest in people, you will get the outcomes that you want.

Asher: I love that. What’s the documentary called, if you don’t mind sharing that?

Angela: It’s called, . Yes, Alesha?

Alesha: Yeah, I also wanted to add to that is, after years of struggling with addiction and then, eventually, incarceration, Kelly was connected through an organization called , which got him a place to live and on his feet after he got out of prison. And, that was a program that was directly funded by , which is such a large part of our homelessness budget, as Angela was discussing before. I think just seeing a success story like Kelly, how after overdosing six times, within six months, now he just finished his master’s degree and is launching his own nonprofit to tell stories like his own. It really humanizes those dollars and I think it’s important for us to remember that, especially during budget season when we’re having difficult conversations and reading headlines that look scary.

Asher: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, Alesha. Appreciate it. Yeah, I would have to check out that documentary. Do you know if it’s being streamed anywhere?��

Alesha: You can see the full version on . His organization is called .

Asher: Okay. Got it. We’ll also put this link in the description below of the podcast itself.��

Angela: Asher, I would also say if people wanna see stories of hope, stories of resilience; has an amazing exhibition up right now, where you can see the first person narratives of people who experiencing homelessness, learn more, take the opportunity to really step into the shoes of our neighbors, who experience homelessness. So, I think that’s a great way for your listeners to deepen their understanding while learning how they might be a bigger part of the solution.

Asher: Definitely. Yeah, thank you so much.��

Key Takeaway and Getting Involved

Asher: What’s one thing you want listeners to take away from this conversation as we end off, Angela. And, once again, we really appreciate all the information you’re providing us, as far as, the houseless situation, the numbers and just the math, and all of it. But, what’s one big takeaway from this conversation you wish our listeners to grab.

Angela: It’s the right question. I’m not asking Portlanders to be patient. I’m asking them to be specific about what they want as an outcome, hold the system accountable to get people housed, and then step back and let those who are the system experts, the social workers, the caseworkers, people with lived experience, let them work on the particulars. That is how we’re going to get the outcomes that we all want. If this keeps being a competition or a argument over “more of this” or “less of that”. We are going to be whipsawed through changing tactics and strategies; money deployed over here, money then redeployed over here. That’s no way to build a resilience system. So, I would ask folks to demand accountability outcomes, and then demand that those who have the skills, the training, the experience to deliver those outcomes, and demand that they’re part of the conversation.

Asher: The final question before we end off things; how can people learn more or get involved with Here Together coalition? Do you have any big events coming up? Like, “Independent Living Resources” recently had, I think, a big event with their community, recently. Is there anything besides the community conversations?

Angela: No, that’s really it. I love big events, but Alesha and I really believe that having smaller conversations with people you know and trust is how people are all going to be able to ask tough questions, get their questions answered, lean into this issue. So, we’ve shifted from large 100 person events to these smaller community conversations to give everyone an opportunity to get their questions answered and their thoughts shared.

Closing Credits

Asher: Well, thank you so much, Angela, and thank you so much, Alesha, from Here Together, Coalition joining me on this podcast. We appreciate you and all that you’re doing for the community, especially with the houseless crisis. And, yeah, we hope to talk to you again maybe one day.��

Angela: Thank you for giving us the opportunity. I really appreciate it. I also know how much work goes into the front end, the back end. So, you’ve spent you’ve been generous and spent an hour with us, and I know you’re gonna have to invest a lot more time to get this to where you want it. So, thank you so much.

Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!. ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Assessable Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC multimedia department. We air new episodes on our home website, our Spotify Channel, , and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Hannah “Asher” Sham

Disclaimer

Kylo: You are listening to let’s Talk! Let’s Talk!, is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, on , and .

Show Intro & Guest Introduction

Asher: Hello, Let’s Talk! listeners! Welcome back to the show! Today’s episode is especially important for our community here in Portland, Oregon. Over the past few years, we’ve seen heightened conversations around immigration enforcement involving federal agents operating in cities like Portland. Sometimes masked, and sometimes not clearly identified, and sometimes leaving community members confused or afraid, especially those of us with disabilities. This topic may induce triggering themes. As always, listeners’ discretion is advised as we delve into this topic. This episode is informational only. It’s not legal advice and laws change and individual situations can vary. Joining me today actually is a special guest from SOAR Immigration Legal Services. Hi! Do you mind introducing yourself and telling me who you are and what you do, to our listeners?

Mercedes: Thanks for having me. My name is Mercedes Riggs and I’m Managing Attorney at , which is a program of Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon.

Asher: Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to interview with us.��

What ICE Is and Does

Asher: For those unfamiliar, can you explain what immigration and customs enforcements is and what its authority includes?

Mercedes: Sure. So, ICE is Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It’s a federal agency that enforces immigration laws inside the United States, in Portland and in Oregon. ICE activity is usually around Southwest Portland, near their facilities at McAdam Avenue, and that’s where many detentions happen and where check-ins happen. But, ICE enforcement can be throughout the community as we’re seeing in practice.

ICE vs Local Police

Asher: What legal powers do ICE agents have in comparison to local Police, like the Portland Police Force and other entities like that?

Mercedes: So, they enforce civil immigration law. The Police enforce criminal law. So, they are kind of different bubbles. They might have uniforms that say Police, but they aren’t actually Police. They’re enforcing our civil immigration laws.

Asher: Oh, interesting. And why is it that they don’t wear any kind of badge, or number, in those cases.

Why Identification Matters

Mercedes: That is a good question. I think that they should be wearing badges or numbers for identification, especially. For reasons why regular Police wear badges and numbers, so we can identify them. So, if there’s an action performed by one of ’em, we know who did what and can track that and respond to that accordingly. Especially if there’s cases where they acted inappropriately and we need to be able to identify them. So, I think that- that is something that they’re missing, that we need.

Asher: For sure. Definitely. With that information and with that background, what does your organization do to help with community and inform them about situations like this? What does your organization do?

How SOAR Helps Locally

Mercedes: So, we provide Immigration Legal Services to the community, um, focusing on low income individuals in our community. We help with filing applications with US Citizenship and Immigration Services. We also help people with their immigration removal defense cases with the Portland Immigration Court and with representation at the ICE office. If somebody has an appointment there, then we have staff that will accompany that person to their appointment and help with interacting with ICE on behalf of that client. One thing that we do not do is we don’t represent cases for people that are detained in Tacoma. Just because we don’t have the capacity to help with people that are detained in Tacoma Detention Center. But, we do help with stuff locally.

Asher: So, it’s not statewide. It’s basically Portland?

Mercedes: Portland and Hillsborough. We have an office in Hillsborough as well. So, more local. There’s some aspects of immigration law where we can help with people statewide and remotely. But, for in-person stuff, it’s in the Portland metro area, Hillsborough area.

Asher: Thank you for telling me about that. Yeah, I feel like very important, especially here in Portland where there’s a lot of unrest going on. Under what circumstances can ICE stop, question or detain someone, and do they need a warrant in those cases? Because, they’ve been taken to court, from what I’ve heard. Do they need a warrant and what kind of warrant and whether or not it’s a judicial warrant or administrative warrant. Can you dig deeper into that for us?

Stops Detention and Warrants

Mercedes: So, when they’re out in public, they are allowed to approach people and ask questions. But, if they ask somebody a question, the person doesn’t have to answer. But, to detain somebody, that’s where they need legal authority. So, they need either a warrant signed by a judge– and they definitely need a warrant signed by a judge to enter somebody’s home– and they also have what’s known as an administrative warrant that’s just signed by ICE, that’s not signed by a judge. That administrative warrant allows them to arrest somebody out in public, but it doesn’t allow them to go into somebody’s house. No matter what ICE might say about that, they don’t have legal authority with an administrative warrant to enter into somebody’s house because of the fourth amendment of the Constitution that prevents illegal searches and seizures without a warrant signed by a judge.

Asher: What constitutional right applies to people regardless of immigration status.

Mercedes: Everyone in Oregon, everyone in the United States, whether they’re a citizen or not, has constitutional rights. All of the constitutional rights; that includes the right to remain silent, that includes the right to refuse entry without a judicial warrant, and that includes the right to due process.

Public vs Private Spaces

Asher: Yeah, you did mention that people out in public is different from being in a private area. Can you define those different areas for our listeners? What’s a public spot and what’s a private area and how do those differentiate with each other? As far as, what law enforcement is allowed to do, or what kinds of rights people have in those different kind of areas.

Mercedes: That’s a great question. So, a public space is any space where we generally regard as public, so outside. Generally treated as public too, like if you’re in a shopping mall and not in a private restricted area. Basically any area that is open to anyone, that isn’t firmly demarcated that this is a private area. So, in order to firmly show to ICE and firmly show to anyone that it’s a private area, there needs to be a sign saying this is a private area, restricted access. A private area is basically an area where it’s monitored and where the access to it is only allowed for people with permission into that specific space.

Asher: Interesting. With that, there’s a little bit of gray area, or… Maybe you can correct me on that, as far as gray areas go; are restaurants, cafes, Church buildings, or stuff, are they public areas or are they considered private areas? Because there are some places that say ICE is not allowed in these areas, or other things.

Churches and Gray Areas

Mercedes: So, I’ll go to churches for example. Traditionally churches were treated as protected spaces and they’ve, usually, been regarded as protected spaces. With this administration, they do not have that same regard anymore. So, for a church building, for example, the main area where people are congregating, that can be treated differently than if there’s a room with a sign on it saying “private area, access restricted”. So, that’s where I think they, would have a harder argument to say. “They”, meaning “ICE”, would have a harder argument to say that they have the right to go in there. If there’s a door specifically saying that; “this is a private area, can’t go further”, then ICE would definitely need a judicial warrant to go into that space to get somebody. And, if they violate that, then they should be held accountable for that.

Reporting ICE Misconduct

Asher: How do they get held accountable, in those situations, where they forcefully enter either a private area, or do a unlawful arrest?

Mercedes: Yeah, so there’s a couple different mechanisms to report that kind of misconduct. If you’re seeing them out in public, or behind closed doors, calling the Sanctuary Promise Hotline; which is 1-844-924-STAY, and 1-844-6-AMPARO in Spanish, or “online@sanctuarypromise.orgen.gov“. The Spanish option is “PromesaSantuario.Oregon.gov”. Could also contact the DHS office for civil rights. There’s also the ICE Office for Professional Responsibility. I think calling “PIRC” would be a good, good idea too, and . Also if it happened in Portland City Limits, then contacting , ’cause their office would probably wanna know about that too.

Asher: Thank you so much for providing all that information. I feel like a lot of listeners would find help at least in those different phone numbers to call especially. Do people have to open the door if ICE knocks, especially at their home? Or is it similar situation where if a Police officer knocks on their door, they have the right to ask these questions and not open the door.

When ICE Knocks at Home

Mercedes: They don’t have to open the door. Not unless ICE shows a judicial warrant with that person’s name and address, or somebody that lives there, their name and address. So, what they should say is, “show me your warrant. Slide it under the door.”. Don’t open the door, because then they might try to push their way in. Try to have them either slide it under the door or if there’s a window near the door, then have it hold it up to the window so that people inside can read it. Say that, “if you don’t have a judicial warrant, you’re not allowed to be in here” and “please go away”.

Do Not Sign Documents

Asher: I’ve heard of just different situations of people giving documents for people to sign after, even just like handing them something underneath the door. Can someone refuse to sign documents? And what happens if someone signs something and they don’t understand it?

Mercedes: Yeah, definitely a bad idea to sign something that you don’t understand. So, my advice is to not sign anything without talking to a lawyer first. I can’t reiterate that enough; don’t sign something that you don’t understand. Because signing something could cause you to accidentally waive your rights. People have the right to an attorney and immigration courts don’t provide you one for free, but you still have the right to talk to one. There are resources and attorneys available in the area that are low cost and possibly free depending on if they have funding to provide those Services. But, definitely, definitely, definitely talk to an attorney first before signing anything.

Right to an Attorney

Asher: So, we do have a right to an attorney during immigration proceedings, or even during detainment? Is that right?

Mercedes: Yes, people have the right to an attorney. They don’t have the right to have one provided by the government, like in criminal court. There are organizations that can provide those Services and give people access to those Services. But, again, the government doesn’t provide one. It’s something that people have to seek out themselves to get. If somebody’s detained, they can and they should call an attorney. It would be a really good idea for anybody that is fearing that they might be detained, to talk to an attorney ahead of time to at least know what their rights are and to be prepared for the worst case scenario. So, that if the worst case happens, then they’re ready and they know what to do already and they’re not scrambling.

Disability Rights and ADA

Asher: Yeah, with that; Let’s Talk!, As a part of the Accessibility Education Department and we here at PCC are very big on disability as well, so wanting to tie that all in together. How does disability law intersect with immigration enforcement?

Mercedes: Disabled people have the same rights as, as anywhere else. But, there are local advocates that can help if ICE fails to provide accommodations. Organizations like , and there’s also a lot of private attorneys that can help too.

Asher: Are ICE agents required to provide accommodations under the American With Disabilities Act, or the ADA, basically.

Mercedes: Yes, because they’re federal agency, they must provide reasonable accommodations including interpreters, mobility support, and communication access.

Asher: And, for people with disabilities, should they be carrying documentation of their disability around? I feel like that’s what it comes down to now, especially with so many invisible disabilities too and such.

Mercedes: It can help, especially if that disability isn’t visible. If somebody’s carrying a , I think, would be helpful.

Accommodations by Disability

Asher: I want to go down the list of what kind of protections exist for, each kind of disabilities. First off, just Deaf or hard of hearing individuals. Can you give some like insight to that? Yeah.

Mercedes: Yes, for Deaf or hard of hearing people, they have a right to qualified an interpreter.

Asher: What about people with an intellectual disabilities?

Mercedes: They have the right to clear communication and to support.

Asher: People with mobility impairments, especially those with like wheelchair or unable to move around properly, or can’t necessarily put their hands up whenever they’re instructed to do so.

Mercedes: Yeah, they have the right to accessible transport and to safe handling. If they can’t put their hands up, then they should communicate that and make it clear that they aren’t able to move. To explain that they’re disabled and can’t put their hands up or explain what their physical limitations are. If I think it would be a good idea for them to have a card on them so that the ICE agent in easily accessible so that the ICE agent can see that.

Asher: And what happens, if a person cannot comply quickly due to a disability like you were saying.

Documenting and Recording Safely

Mercedes: For them to continue to try to communicate the reasons why they’re not able to comply with what the ICE officer is asking them to do, and to definitely document the interaction. Whether or not somebody’s with them or they themselves are recording on their phone. If they’re not able to record on their phone, then to document the interaction and like when they get home and write it down, so that it can be reported.

Asher: Yeah. With that, there are many stories and probably also just many videos on the internet of people trying to document and then their phones getting slapped away, or something like that. What should you do in those situations? There are different sides to it. I’m protecting myself so I should shove back, which I feel like that’s a really bad idea too, but what’s the good idea in those situations?

Mercedes: I think in those situations it’s hard because people do have the right to try to protect themselves. Try to document in a way that wouldn’t “offend”– the ICE officer. So, not having a phone right in their face, having it more closer to the recorder, the person reporting, and also just continuing to write down, or document, and make a record in saying, “I’m recording this because I have the right to record the interaction and I’m doing this for my own protection, so that we can be clear about what happened on this day.”.

Panic Sensory Overload Tips

Asher: What should a disabled person do if they’re experiencing sensory overload or panic episode during an encounter like that? Because, it’s scary and a lot of students just been on the lookout everywhere for any sort of sign of different kind of cars or just special vehicles that ICE drives, apparently? What should disabled people do if they’re experiencing that and starting to panic and everything? What can we do?��

Mercedes: One idea would be for them to say, “I need a moment because of my disability.” If they have maybe a support card, having that ready and be clear about the fact that they have a disability and just keep on repeating themselves. “I have a disability. I need a moment.”

Staying Safe in Encounters

Asher: What are some best practices for staying safe during an encounter like that? If we do end up encountering like ICE agents?

Mercedes: I know this is like easier said than done, but try to stay calm. Again, asserting your rights. Just keep on repeating your rights, avoid sudden movements, so try to be as still as you can and move as slowly as you can, keep your hand visible, and have your rights card handy. You might’ve seen the red cards floating around, so having that handy to help remind yourself. But, just generally if you’re going to be moving at all, explaining what you’re doing, and asking for permission. Especially, if you’re gonna put your hands in your pocket to get something. Saying, “I am putting my hands in my pocket to get out my ID.”, Or maybe asking for permission ahead of time before even doing that going, “Hey, I would like to get my ID out for you. Can I get that for you?”, and asking permission ahead of time, so that if you have a jumpy ICE officer. That they know what’s going on and you get permission from them, so everything’s clear and to keep yourself as safe as possible in those interactions.

Where to Get “Know Your Rights” Cards

Asher: You mentioned those rights cards. Where can our listeners find those rights cards to print out or even to give out to people, just in case?

Mercedes: has them in multiple different languages. You can order them off their website and also has cards too, and you can print them out too if you don’t wanna order it. You can just print out what they have. They have versions where you can print it out and you can just fold it up and put it in your wallet.

Asher: Yeah, thanks for giving that resource for us. Definitely will place it at the bottom of our website.��

If Agents Enter Without Warrant

Asher: How should someone respond if agents try to enter without a warrant?

Mercedes: They should say through the door, “I don’t consent to entry”, and they should call the . Call their hotline at (888) 622-1510.

Asher: Can they call immediately? Like during that moment?

Mercedes: Yes, for sure. Yes.

Asher: And, they will probably tell them what to do and such. Right?

Mercedes: Exactly. They can help coach them through the interaction.

Handling Threats and Intimidation

Asher: What if they threaten arrest or deportation, immediately? Those kinds of encounters I feel like are quite a bit, and it’s very scary to just hear that and be like, “oh, shoot! What do I do?”.

Mercedes: Keep on repeating, “I choose to remain silent. I want to speak to a lawyer.”. Threats don’t remove somebody’s rights. So, they can threaten all they want. But, again, it’s easier said than done to try to stay calm. But, keep on repeating that you have rights and you have the right to remain silent. And, again, saying that you want to speak to a lawyer. There’s nothing that bothers me more than when I watch like a movie, or something, and somebody starts talking to law enforcement without their lawyer present. I’m going, “no! No!”

Asher: “Don’t do that!”

Mercedes: “Don’t do it! It’s a trap!”

Asher: “It’s a trap!” Yeah. Listeners, please don’t learn from movies about how to speak to local law enforcement. You have rights, and don’t just speak to them on a whim!��

How to Document Misconduct

Asher: Immediately after the encounter, and I know you talked a little bit about it too; who to call as well as how to file complaints. How do we document misconduct, in situations like that. I don’t even know how to start with that. Where do you write it down, or who do you even tell, and is there a proper procedure to document misconduct in situations like that?

Mercedes: So, somebody should take notes right away while the details are fresh in your memory. Recording all the details that you remember, like that for the officer, their name, if you got one, their badge number, if they happen to wear one. ICE doesn’t wear badges, but maybe they will start one day. I don’t know. If you saw their vehicle documenting what kind of vehicle and if you could see any license plate information, details on what the officer was wearing, like what color uniform they were wearing, if you noticed any special badges on them. Also record down the date, the time, the exact location, describe what happened, if there were any witnesses there, try to record down the names of the witnesses and the contact information for the witnesses, and try to take photos or videos. But, don’t interfere with the officers. Again, the best practices these days, as we’re seeing is, if at all possible, try to take photos or videos. Then to call the PIRC hotline after and to call a trusted person or, if that person has like an attorney, call them.

Rapid Response Support Networks

Asher: What other organizations provide rapid response support? I know you mentioned one during the encounter of who to call, but maybe even after the fact. After we get to a safe location, who can we call? For rapid response and just support or even during that situation as well.

Mercedes: Yeah. So, PIRC is like the number one, I think on the list. But, besides them, there’s a couple organizations that provide rapid response support in Portland. Innovation Law Lab is one. I think the Clear Clinic also o offers rapid response support, or if that person has their own private attorney lined up that they’ve been in contact with before; calling them up, I think, would be a good idea.

Asher: I feel like it’s very important, especially in those situations to have support. Especially those of us with disabilities. Like you were saying, it’s easier said than done in those situations to remain calm, to state your rights, move as slowly as possible, and say everything very clearly. Especially in those encounters and such.

Mercedes: It might be a good idea to practice those interactions, so that somebody could feel more prepared and just practicing things like you might practice other things in your life. Then it might become more of a muscle memory and easier to do when you’re actually in the moment.

Legal Community Monitoring

Asher: How can communities legally observe or monitor enforcement activities? I’ve seen a lot of different kind of observations around like statewide, especially like Portland, Minnesota, and such. People recording and people trying to make a website online that says “this is where ICE agents are. Keep an eye out!”.��

Mercedes: Yeah. People can record from a safe distance. I am not like a super brave person, so I would probably be recording out in a window, far away. I admire the people that are braver and that will be down there on the street. But, I’ll be poking through the blinds on the window, recording. But, there are, Portland area, in Oregon, rapid response volunteers that are trained to observe without interfering. Like the volunteers with PIRC.

More Ways to Report Abuse

Asher: What mechanisms exist to report misconduct? Just going back to the whole idea of reporting an encounter, and such.

Mercedes: is available, , for the Portland area, or Portland City limit, Interactions. Also the ICE office for professional responsibility. I don’t feel like much of us trust ICE right now. I don’t trust ICE.

Asher: Yeah, no.��

Mercedes: I think procedurally it would be a good idea to still report to that agency, maybe one day, in the future for another administration that has the idea to actually hold people responsible in mind. For them to be aware of and to, possibly, do something about. These days, I feel like some trust from them, from ICE, would be earned, by me, if officers wore badges with their identifying information and showed their faces. That’s what makes me particularly distrustful if I can’t identify somebody and can’t see their face. Automatically the suspicions are added. Why are you hiding? What is there to hide? If you’re doing something that you are supposed to be doing, then you shouldn’t be afraid of identifying yourself.

Asher: Definitely showing badge number or showing at least like legal ID and showing your face. Don’t mask up your face. I want to be able to see who you are!��

Mercedes: Exactly! �۱𲹳�.��

Protecting Vulnerable Neighbors

Asher: How can people legally protect vulnerable community members in situations like, Low income or people with disabilities and such. What’s legally allowed in protection?��

Mercedes: “Know Your Rights” trainings are great and some organizations have trainings. To train the trainer so that people can spread the word about people’s rights. Another good idea that I think anybody that fears being detained or deported should do is have a safety plan. I think has a safety plan on their website; a packet that you can download and fill out and give a copy to a trusted person, so that they have that information. Because, for anybody, a safety plan is a good idea. We should have a plan for what happens if the worst happens. I have kids, we have a plan for what happens if there’s a disaster. There’s all sorts of things that we should be preparing for in life. In case, the big earthquake hits; we need to be prepared for that. This is no different. People should have a safety plan in case they’re detained so that their affairs can be put in order. Another good idea is disability accommodation cards. Helping people with that and distributing that and making sure that people with disabilities have those in case they need them. Then also connecting with the rapid response networks that I mentioned, like PIRC. Helping people with accessing that. If somebody comes to another person with a legal question helping to connect that person with a qualified immigration attorney. Because there’s a lot of scammers out there.

Asher: There are, yes.

Mercedes: And there’s people, unfortunately, taking advantage of people in this situation and taking advantage of people’s fears. It just makes me so mad, because sometimes these scammers put people in an even worse situation. So, for sure, helping people contact a qualified attorney and you can look up and see if somebody is qualified by looking on the Oregon State Bar website directory. Or, since immigration is federal, immigration lawyers might be licensed to practice in another state. So, maybe trying to Google them and just confirming that they’re licensed at least somewhere.

Finding Trusted Legal Help

Asher: Yeah. Do you have any links for us? As far as, looking for a legal attorney, or at least an immigration attorney and those that can speak different languages.

Mercedes: has some information about connecting to attorneys and people can connect to Equity Corps of Oregon, which has access to panel attorneys that can help out.��

Asher: Would you say that’s like the main website you should go to, to look for an attorney?

Mercedes: Yeah. There’s multiple nonprofits in the area that provide immigration legal services for, either, free or for low cost. Besides going through “ECHO”, there’s organizations like “Mines” or Immigration Legal Services. There’s ““, ““, “”. There’s Catholic Charities. I’m trying to think of anyone else that I’m missing, but those are like some of the main ones here in Portland.

Asher: We’ll definitely add those links as well for our listeners who need help, and just need legal counsel, and just to ask all those important questions in those situations.��

Policy Reforms and Transparency

Asher: Do you know what policy reforms are currently being debated regarding enforcement transparency? And we did mention a few, wearing legal badge, having a name and legal badge number or uncovering the face. Do you know if there’s any other debates being made in regards to enforcement transparency?

Mercedes: I know the Legislative session just wrapped up last week. And the bill for no masks is going to the governor’s desk, I believe soon. No masks for law enforcement. .

If Someone Is Detained

Asher: What should someone do if a family member, friend or other community member that they know is detained and they need to find what facility the individual are being held in? Who can they call? What can they do if, for example, I have a friend that was detained and they were brought to a facility. What can I do to know what is happening?��

Mercedes: You can look on . That detainee locator, I feel like it’s not exactly in real time. It’s a little bit delayed. So, if somebody looks up somebody on the website and they know their friend, or loved one, was detained an hour ago and somebody’s not popping up on the website yet. It’s because of that delay. They can try calling the ICE Field Office, in Southwest Portland, to see and they can confirm if they have somebody. It’s hard sometimes, because of those delays and that causes a lot of anxiety. I know, for people, it’s not easy to track somebody. So, I can see how that would definitely be stressful for people not knowing, having that delay for an hour or two as that information is being added online. But yeah, trying the online locator, calling the office, and also contacting PIRC. PIRC might be able to help and track down where that person is.

Asher: Yeah. Is ICE legally required to record the person’s name that they detain? I don’t know if there’s situations where the name just never shows up and just the person’s lost in the system.

Mercedes: Yeah, they have to gather that information and they’re supposed to be able to provide that information, so people can locate people. They can’t just disappear people.

Asher: Really appreciate you giving all these details and resources for us, Mercedes. Really appreciate it.��

Contacting SOAR and Office Hours

Asher: Last but not least, how can listeners reach out to your organization if they need help or want to know more on how to stay safe and what their legal rights are and everything?

Mercedes: They can call our office at (503) 384-2482. They can also email us at “soarlegal@emoregon.org“. Email, I think, is the best way to get a hold of us since we’re so busy and the phone is ringing off the hook. Sometimes it takes a while to get through to a human on the phone. So, email would be probably the best way to get hold of us to schedule a consultation.

Asher: Awesome. And are we allowed to come visit at your offices, or is it better to email first if you really want to see a physical person.

Mercedes: So, visiting is great. We welcome that. We are open to the public on Monday afternoons from one to four, then Tuesday through Thursday from eight to four, but closed during lunch, and we are closed on Friday.

Asher: Awesome. Thank you so much, Mercedes once again for joining me on this interview and giving all this insight, especially on the legalities of ICE, what to do to stay safe, and also know our rights. Appreciate you.

Mercedes: You’re welcome, Asher. It’s been a pleasure.

Asher: Thank you.

Mercedes: Thank you.

“The New Colossus” Poem Reading

Asher: You’re listening to Let’s Talk!. That was Mercedes from Soar Legal Immigration Services. Joining me on an interview on disability and immigrant rights. Coming up is a short poem called . It’s a sonnet by Emma Lazarus, written in 1883, to raise funds for the statue of Liberty’s pedestal, famously welcoming immigrants with the lines; “Give me your tired. You’re poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”. The poem contrasts the statue with the ancient colossus of roads, presenting it as a mother of exiles, holding a beacon of hope and its words were inscribed on a plaque inside the pedestal, in 1903, becoming a powerful symbol of America’s promise to immigrants. This poem is spoken by Ash DeHart.

Ash DeHart: “Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, with conquering limbs, a stride from land to land; Here at our sea washed, sunset gate shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, who’s flame is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon hand glows worldwide welcome; her mild eyes command the airbridge harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teaming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

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Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!. ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at pcc.edu/dca. This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk Podcast collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC multimedia department. We air new episodes on our , our Spotify Channel, , and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective

Episode Disclaimers

Kylo: You are listening to Let’s Talk! Let’s Talk! is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ, PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on , and .

Episode Introduction

Miri: On Friday, February 20th, 2026, amid record high tensions between themselves and ˿����Ƶ’s administration, the unions representing the classified and faculty employees at the school voted overwhelmingly to approve a strike. A couple of days ago, I got to talk to two members of PCCFFAP, the union that represents ˿����Ƶ’s faculty and academic professionals. I asked them to share their insights on the background of the strike, what the workers are asking for, and how a potential strike could impact students if the college continues refusing to truly show up to bargaining. Thank you so much for meeting with me today and being willing to talk about this. I’d like to start by asking you both to introduce yourself with your names, pronouns, background, and how did you end up at PCC?��

Meet the Guests

Ben: Yeah. Thanks so much, Miri. My name is Ben Cushing. I’m the president of the PCC Federation of Faculty and Academic Professionals, he/him, and I am a faculty member who teaches sociology at Cascade Campus. I’ve been at PCC since 2008. I started as a part-time faculty member right outta graduate school, and I worked as a part-time faculty member for five or six years, and then started as a full-time faculty in 2013. And I’ve been in the president role for about two years.

Jacob: Hi everybody. I’m Jacob Richman, he/him. I’m a part-time faculty member in Multimedia, and am the lead steward for the CTE programs at the faculty union, FFAP. CTE programs are the career training educational programs. They include everything from my program, Multimedia, , through nursing, welding, trades, sciences. It’s an incredibly broad area. So, I’ve been in PCC, I think, this is my third or fourth year? Yeah. Have a background in audio and video multimedia production, and art, and performance, and community art. And, I’m really glad being here. Thanks for the invite.��

An Outline of PCC’s Unions

Miri: So, what is PCCFFAP’s role, and how did you each get involved in that?��

Jacob: It’s the union that includes all faculty and APs, academic professionals. So, counselors, a lot of administrative staff that are student facing or that deal with student services or work with them. I got involved, I was heavily involved in the, um, part-time faculty union at Portland State before moving from there to here. And, before that was pretty active in unions a little bit before that. So, as soon as I got here, I was like; I knew already about the union. It’s a very strong one. A unique thing about – it’s what’s called a big tent union. So, it includes part-time faculty, full-time faculty, administrative professionals and that’s really exciting and there’s a lot of power in that. So, I was excited to take part and ran for this steward position, and here I am.��

Miri: Awesome! Thank you, and what about yourself?��

Ben: Yeah, so… Um, I– I came to the labor movement really from the social movement world. So, you know, I’ve been engaged in various kinds of, of social movement work all the way back to, you know, when I was a 18, 19-year-old. And, I began to be really- and of course I’ve been a– a rank and file member of the union here at PCCFFAP, um, since 2008 when I started working here. But, I wasn’t really participating in any union leadership, or I wasn’t very active for a long time. And, I started to see how unions were, in— in the last five years or so, becoming an increasingly important sort of force for good in the world. For one, like getting much more active, I was really inspired by the Starbucks workers who were organizing, by workers at Amazon, fulfillment centers that we’re organizing, and– and also just seeing a shift in the labor movement where people were sort of remembering, I think, that the labor movement is a social movement. Seeking not only, you know, better wages and working conditions in our workplaces, but also to shift the balance of power in society toward working people. And, I also, I think I began to understand that to address a lot of the other things that I care about, you know, the climate crisis, economic inequality more broadly, and lots of other things, maybe everybody having healthcare. Um, that those kinds of things can only be meaningfully accomplished if there’s a strong, well organized, participatory, and democratic labor movement. And, so, me and some of my colleagues formed, uh, Reform Caucus within our union and began to push our organization to just be more bold and to be more inclusive and democratic. And, so, that’s kind of what led me here.��

Miri: Yeah, that’s super interesting. The way that you’re framing that as everything being inextricably linked to each other for that, for anything else to progress is interesting, I think. And, for a long time the opinion on– on unions has been poor and on the climate has been poor, and healthcare has been poor. And, trying to get each of those things moving independently has not really led to a lot actually happening.

Ben: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one of the things that social movements can do— and the labor movement is– is part of this— is to shift the political terrain, you know? So, one of the things I think that we need to accomplish here in terms of higher education is to shift the political terrain in Oregon such that higher education is broadly understood as a public good. Something that’s good for all people, and that as such, everybody should have access to it. It should be free or cheap, and should be open access and– and serving our communities. Instead, what we’ve seen over the years is kind of the shift in the opposite direction. In some respects, we had a version of that, like an imperfect version of that, maybe a generation or two back. And, over the past 40 to 50 years, there’s been a systematic gutting of public institutions and their funding. That basically boils down to tax cuts for the rich and, uh, decreasing funding for public institutions. Whether that be, you know, the social safety net or… Um, K-12 Education or Higher Ed. And one of the consequences for students is that tuition has just skyrocketed during that time. You know, when– when my parents went to college, um, you could go to a, uh, university in California and pay very, very little in tuition. So, you could basically work a summer job and pay for your tuition throughout the year. At a– at a– at a tier one University in– in the California University system. Right? Uh, that is not what students face today. And that’s a result of the shifting of power in society toward the wealthy who have been able to, um, basically gut public institutions and, uh, decrease their own taxes. And, so there’s this growing inequality within society between, between the rich and– and– and the working class. And, so really I think that our– our organization is on the one hand fighting to improve the working conditions and the wages of our coworkers. But, it’s also pushing back against an entire model of education, of higher education, which is bad for students. ‘Cause, tuition goes up and it’s bad for the workers within those institutions as more and more faculty are working as, um, adjunct faculty as part-time, precarious workers. Basically gig workers; and we’ve seen, you know, job security and wages and benefits decreasing over time. And, so we need to push back against that whole system. And, I think that– that workers in that system and the students within that system share a lot of common interests to push back against it. And, would be wise to su— you know, support one another. Like we really want to be in solidarity with students as they’re fighting for lower tuition, and the various causes that I know a lot of student organizations are pushing toward.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

What They’re Fighting For

Ben: We have a platform, a bargaining platform. Um, and a series of proposals. Our– if you go to our website, , and click on , there’s a huge amount of information, um, including all the proposals that have been passed if you really wanna dive in deep. But, also some more zoomed out Q and A type information, both for our members and for students. So, there’s a lot of– lot of really good info there.��

Miri: Awesome. Thank you.��

Ben: So, the… At this point, the key things we’re fighting over. There’re actually many. But, they boil down to wages and benefits. So, we are in the middle of our full contract. Two years ago we settled on a four year contract, Um… But, we only bargained for wages and benefits for the first two years. And, then we agreed to reopen the parts of the contract that deal with wages and benefits to renegotiate them after two years, to basically come up with the wages and benefits for the second two years of the contract. So, that’s what we’re in right now is called an economic reopener. And, currently the college’s offer in terms of a cost of living adjustment is 0.35%. Which, a cost of living adjustment is intended to help wages keep up with inflation so that workers over time don’t lose ground. Um… So, inflation in the Western States, uh, in the last year was a little under 3,% and it was about 3% the year before. So, a COLA that keeps up with inflation would be about 3%, COLA being Cost Of Living Adjustment. The college’s current offer is 0.35%. So, that’s, um, basically zero. Uh, it’s 30, uh, 35 cents for every $100 you make.��

Miri: That– that was… I– I, you know, doing the research for this and then also for an episode, I did a couple weeks ago with, um, students from the Music Sonic Arts movement, that is an absolutely bizarre number. Like it– is there a way that they came up with that number? ‘Cause that seems like that– it seems like an accounting error that seems like they put the period in the wrong place.��

Ben: I was talking to a friend last night and I told them about the– the college’s COLA offer and he said, “You know, it’d be better if they just offered zero,” you know?��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Ben: 0.35 feels like it’s an insult. Um, yeah. And…��

Miri: Like, because 3.5 seems like what you would be asking for.��

Ben: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: And then zero seems like what they would be wanting to, what any administration would be wanting to offer.��

Ben: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: So, then having that weird, almost non arbitrary number of like, “You know, it’ll be, it’ll be 10% of what you’re actually asking for.” Just — is — why??��

Ben: Yeah. Their– their original offer was 0.25, and then a few months ago they raised it to 0.35. An additional 10 cents for every hundred dollars. So, you know. I mean, I think the college claims that they’re facing really difficult budget times. Um, they’re… we– we don’t want to deny that there’s– there’s some truth in that, you know. Like the budget’s not great. The budget is not in a crisis, you know? Um, but it is — it isn’t great. They’re setting aside a lot of additional money into their, um, reserves that they don’t need to do, but they’re choosing to do. Um, and that takes millions of dollars off the table that could be used to have our wages keep up with inflation. The college is choosing to spend money in ways that are– that– that don’t serve students, I would argue. We– we’ve seen the– the– um, the– the amount of managers at PCC increase by 29% since 2018. So, that’s not a very long period of time. And we’ve seen almost– almost a one third growth in the number of managers. Actually, what’s measured by FTE, so full-time equivalent. Um, so, we just think the college has its priorities out of place.

Miri: Let’s see. I’m trying to pull the, uh, president’s open letter up again as well, where some arguments had been made about those were going along with state regulations and what other colleges are doing; while not addressing the decreasing amount of full-time faculty and part-time faculty. What is in your, uh, negotiations to address that part?��

Ben: So, first of all, I think we should compare the college’s current offer to previous contract settlements over the past decade or so, to get a sense of like how different is what they’re offering now from what they’ve offered in the past. But, the short story is that over the past decade, you know, with inflation; the college’s like overall cost of our contract agreement, meaning the cost for everything from health insurance to wages to all the other things that are included in our contract settlements, have increased from about 17 million, at the lowest, about 10 years ago, to about 36. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I think it’s about 36 million. So, there’s been a kind of a slow increase and then there was a dip around COVID when the contract settlement went, the total cost of the contract settlement was again about the high teens, right? Um, the college’s current offer with us right now, and we are not in a global pandemic is 3.7%. I’m actually gonna take a second and pull up this document so I can give you concrete numbers. So… Okay! So, over the past 10 years or so, we can compare the total cost of the economic packages that PCC and PCCFFAP, our union and the college have agreed on. So, in 2015, the college agreed to a $21 million package. In 2017, it was of 24 million. In 2019, is 27 million. So, you can see that’s kind of the trend. There’s a slight, uh, growth with inflation, but then it dipped in 2021 ’cause of the pandemic. And, so that brought us down to $17 million. Um, but then we kind of caught up, we had what we called a catch up COLA last time where there had been so much inflation since the pandemic and we hadn’t actually had any cost of living adjustments significantly during that time. So, we got a bigger than normal COLA that we negotiated for in our last contract that didn’t quite catch us up to inflation, but almost did. So, in that– that total cost of that package that we agreed upon two years ago was $38 million. Um, the college’s current offer is $3.7 million. So, from a $38 million package to a $3.7 million package. So the college’s offer is just right now a total outlier in terms of the history of contract negotiations at PCC. So, the college I think would say, that the reason that it’s so low is that we are in unprecedented economic times, you know? That the– the funding is really bad for the college. That– that there’s even a chance that the, um, the Big Beautiful Bill passed in Washington DC will trickle down in to Oregon’s budget, and cause decreases in funding. We actually don’t know if that will happen yet. The Oregon legislature’s working on currently. So, we’ll find out about that in the next week. Hopefully that doesn’t happen. But, if it were true that we were in such dire economic times that any public institution’s just starved for resources, then we would see other unions at other public institutions in the Portland metro area settling on really low cost of living adjustments, right?��

Miri: That’s not happening?

Ben: And, it’s not happening. , and they’ve all settled for COLAs between 3% and 5%. So Beaverton teachers settled for 4.75% in the first year, 5% in the second year. Salem Kaiser, 4% and 3.5%. Lake Oswego, 3.6, 3.2. So, I could go down this list. I don’t need to bore your listeners with the numbers. But, the point is that all of the numbers are between 3% and 5%. In fact, I’m in conversation with some of the workers at, um, Central Oregon Community College, the classified workers there. They’re also in bargaining right now, and they were just offered 4% by their management team. They didn’t accept it, but they were offered 4%. Um, Lane Community College classified workers were just– they just settled a contract with 3%. By contrast, PCC’s current offer is 0.35%. So, we just want to pose the question like, if PCC’s peer institutions, in the same economic climate with the same funding sources, can afford a cost of living adjustment for their workers that allows them to keep up with inflation or exceed it, why can’t PCC?��

How a Strike Would Effect PCC

Miri: Yeah, it’s a good question. That would be great if, uh, somebody answered. How would a strike affect students and employees at PCC? What are the– the things that they can expect? Starting with students; what are the things that they can expect in the next month? You know, while strike things are potentially getting set, versus afterwards when a strike is happening, like what resources will they not have access to? What, uh, will happen to grades and classes and trying to sign up for next term?

Ben: This is an excellent question. So, I’ll start with just some basic information. Um, so if we strike, we’ll probably strike on the Wednesday of Week 10, which is March 11th. From that point on. Classes will be canceled and probably the college will be closed. Buildings will probably be closed. We don’t know that for sure. We don’t control whether or not that happens. But, um, if we go on strike, it’s very– very likely that our union, FFAP, the Federation of Faculty and Academic Professionals, will strike at the same time as the classified union, the Federation of Classified Employees. And, that union represents custodial workers, bus drivers, food service workers, administrative assistants, and a whole bunch of other workers. So, what that means is that the vast majority of people employed by PCC will all be on strike. Probably, 15, 16, 1700 workers, on strike at the same time. So, that means the college will be closed, classes will be canceled. If you have a class that isn’t on campus that’s just on D2L, that class will be canceled too. Different teachers are navigating this complicated thing in different ways, and we’re all trying to find ways to– to make this, you know, negatively impact students as little as possible. We understand that this is a major, at best, an inconvenience and at worst, like, it really sucks and is problematic for students, um. We don’t enter into that decision lightly. It’s much like, you know, I think about nurses sometimes who have to go on strike. We’ve had long nursing strikes in the Pacific Northwest recently and nurses don’t go on strike lightly either, ’cause they know that their strike might affect patients. But, we also know, I think nurses understand that to build a better healthcare system, like a healthcare system for example that has a– a better nurse to patient ratio, um, so patients get a better experience, sometimes we have to take, like, short-term sacrifices to push for long-term improvements. And, we hope that our strike at PCC, if we end up going on strike, will be like that. It’ll be a short term sacrifice for all of us, for workers and for students. Um, but we hope that it’ll help get PCC on the– on the right course.��

Miri: Yeah, absolutely.��

Ben: So, in terms of, like concrete impacts that it could have for students, if a strike is only a few days long, that will probably mean you miss a class or two, sort of like if the college was canceled for a weather outage, right? If the strike lasts longer than that, we start to get into finals week, and that disrupts final exams and potentially even disrupts the submission of grades. So, it’s possible that grades could be submitted late after the end of a strike. And, of course, that’s disruptive to students. We think that major negative consequences for students won’t happen until we got into, like, into the first part of April, um, where it starts to affect things like academic standing and financial aid and things like that. So, we… Expect, we hope that the administration, like us, will also be doing everything they can to make this as– as least problematic as possible for students. Um. We know that some of the services that PCC provides to students will also be disrupted. We– we intend to have, for example, free food to give away at picket lines to students and to our coworkers, and we’re currently trying to just communicate out as well as we can and build relationships of solidarity with students. This conversation is part of that. There’s gonna be a, um, a student facing town hall today at Cascade Campus, um, and another one later in the week. I think at Sylvania. So, we’re trying to do everything we can to reach out to students. PCCFFAP, our union employs two student organizing interns, which are PCC students who are developing organizing skills and, um, and are paid employees of our union to do that work. Um, trying to help establish, you know, relationships of solidarity with– with students. We’re really proud to have the support of ASPCC who signed onto our solidarity pledge, and tons of individual students who have also signed onto that pledge. But, we understand that this– that if we strike it will be disruptive. To all of our lives, including student lives, and we don’t take that lightly.��

Miri: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you very much for coming and taking time outta your morning to talk to me today.

Ben: Yeah. Thanks Miri. I’m sorry that I have to move on. Yeah, no worries to– to get to class. Um, but I– but– but you’re in good hands with Jacob. Jacob, thanks. Um, your patience while I talked a lot and, um, and, uh, good luck with the second half of the interview.��

Jacob: Of course. Thanks, Ben. See you soon!��

Miri: Yeah. And, I wish you the best of luck on your, uh, negotiations.

Ben: Thanks so much, Miri. Appreciate that!��

What Admin is Saying

Miri: So, one thing that Ben had mentioned was, one of the things that the union is trying to work toward is getting things more universally accessible for students of all needs. You know, not necessarily within just what the union is bargaining for, but it being part of a cultural shift, a societal shift in Oregon to get things free and cheap, secondary education, free and cheap for people who, who want it, who need it. So, based on that, what do you think of having funding and course decisions and stuff be so based off of graduation rates?��

Jacob: The Music and Sonic Arts, Save Music and Sonic Arts campaign, administration will really cherry pick and sometimes even fabricate its data for graduation rates. Since people, especially community college might take more time, they might be able to take, you know, one course a term, they might be able to take three courses a different term. They might have to take a term off depending on– on life situation. So I think it’s a poor metric, certainly a poor soul metric. I think we want our, you know. I absolutely want my students to finish the program, get great skills, and be able to succeed in creative careers. I teach in a creative program and I want to gear towards them, towards the lives of, you know, supporting themselves through their creative work. That’s the most exciting thing in the world. So… And, what that looks like isn’t necessarily just the graduation rate for one year or another. Those things are important. Um, and we all need to be paying attention to them as, uh, as faculty and administration as well. Um, but, yeah, not solely.��

Miri: Yeah, I think the graduation rate obsession comes from looking at it from the perspective of public primary schools, where you are enrolled just default all the way from first through 12th grade. Uh, and that’s your options. Like there is a dropping out, and there is a completing, and that’s it. Or, for more traditional four year university type things, where you go, you sign up for this program, you go there, you take these classes, and then you graduate or you drop out. Versus what a community college is useful for; where you can go and take a couple of classes, when you can afford it, and then take a term two, three off, and then take a couple more classes when you can afford it. And, I think having that– having that affect graduation rate measurements, in the same way that that would in a four year university, is inaccurate, at least.��

Jacob: I agree a hundred percent. I– I think the impetus is to– to encourage students, to support them in all those decisions. ‘Cause you know at– at a large expense four year university. You’re also like buying into that many years of– of loans or debt or whatever that– that locks you in there. So, there’s that added pressure as well, and you can’t leave or else you lose all that. And, so I think here at– at ˿����Ƶ, we need to… We– we want our students to continue through the program, continue to build on those skills on top of each other. Um, but the pacing needs to be a little bit more realistic to people who have families, who have– or everybody’s working, uh, you know, all these sorts of things that they have to take care of as well. And, I think we need to be, uh, uh, flexible about that. Administration’s job. I think, um, right now where– where they see it is like they’re, they’re just sharpening knives. It feels like— and this is not just at ˿����Ƶ or this particular administration, though this one is just a little bit more brazen. But, it’s the– the corporatization of higher education. Uh, really almost like the venture capital approach. What can we slice away for parts in this bloated corpse from a previous era that’s higher education in America? And, so you have these consultant class people who come in, who run administrations, who run boards, and they– they all– they wanna see is cost cutting. Except for in their own sense. Like Ben, uh, Ben mentioned the, you know, the 20 plus percent growth in– in administration in this college with a, you know, subsequent shrink of actually student facing. I like to call student facing versus administration. Um, uh, a very lopsided, so they don’t wanna cut themselves. Um, they just wanna squeeze everything else. They wanna cut programs, doesn’t matter what reasons. Um, that’s something I’ve come to learn over, uh, bargaining with this administration is that the reasons aren’t important. They just want to cut and pick apart. And so whether its graduation rates, whether it’s income to the college from a program, whether it’s hireability, all of these things, when you pick apart the reasoning for any of their processing, and when it’s starts to fall apart, they’ll just hop to another. And then when you get ’em in a corner, they’re just like, “we’re doing this ’cause we can.”. So, that’s– that’s sort of where I’m at here. So, I– yeah. This is a long-winded way of answering your question. I don’t think that graduation rates should be the sole metric of the success of a program.��

Miri: Yeah. Well, in– in all my talks with, uh, student organizers, the thing that they’re fundamentally most frustrated with from the administration is a lack of transparency and honesty. Um, you know, they– they go to the town halls, they ask the questions, they send the emails, and then are either stonewalled and, uh, lied to their face and told that they are not receiving the communications, the administration is not receiving the communications that the students are giving, or when they ask a question, when the student’s asking a question that the administration responds to, it is fabrications or a smokescreen. For example, in the Music and Sonic Arts having a low graduation rate being one of the reasons for that program to be shut down when that program has a 40% higher graduation rate than the college average.��

Jacob: Yep, that’s right.��

Miri: Um, so what kind of things are staff facing in that same kind of vein, of things that you’re asking about and then just being obfuscated from you when they answer.

Jacob: Sure. No, I appreciate that question. And, and it breaks my heart that that’s the, um, that the experience of students with this administration as well. And, as a quick background, so I’m– I’m a faculty member in Multimedia program. Music and Sonic Arts I would consider sort of our sister program. And, um, I have a lot, you know, you were one of them. Uh, I have a lot of Music Sonic Arts students in my classes. Um, and so I’ve been involved in the Save Music and Sonic Arts campaign for almost a year now. Starting with a kind of legit by-the-book, what’s called, Impact Bargaining. When, if something– something administration makes some change that affects the workers, even if it’s in between contract years, we get to bargain it as an individual item. So, that we– we did that all through last summer, went absolutely nowhere. Administration just ran their wheels. And, they did exactly what you mentioned. They lied about the reasoning, multiple times. So, they would say, it costs money. Can you tell us how much money? Or it’ll save us money to cancel this program. Can you tell us how much money it saved? No. Literally they said that, um, it doesn’t prepare our students for work in the industry. We had dozens of industry leaders come and, and provide evidence. Otherwise they said, okay, well we don’t care. Um, and then it is graduation rates. Graduation rates for our Music Sonic Arts is higher than the average. I, it’s– it just doesn’t make sense. It’s like they don’t, not even caring to properly lie about the reasoning for things. And it’s– it’s really heartbreaking, and to be honest, really scary at this moment we are at right now.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Jacob: ‘Cause it means like, well, what are they gonna do next if they don’t care to tell the truth to us or to students? And then to answer, sorry for the roundabout, but to answer your question, how does it affect faculty like us: This kind of process, what this administration’s doing? It’s not unique. It was the same way when I was at Portland State. Administrations in this kind of venture capital, picking over the corpse way. They’ll squirrel away money into these savings accounts, claim they need to do it for a rainy day, and then shrink the budget to a doom budget and then cut, cut, cut. That’s what they’re doing here. Ben alluded to it. They’re, they’re artificially deflating the budget and then squeezing all the programs. It’s Music and Sonic Arts, and there were– there were other programs that were cut. Russian language program. Uh, gerontology, in this era where like, that’s such like, like we’re getting, we’re aging as a country. Like we’re not gonna need people knowing, gerontology? It– it’s just madness. So they cut these programs arbitrarily, it seems like, and then squeeze the rest. And for folks that feel like, whether they’re in your faculty and listening or students, you think your program’s safe, you’re not, I lost a class, so how it effects staff, I lost a class that I was a full class, that I was slated to teach this term because of this part-time faculty budget, uh, squeezing they’re doing across the board. Um, and that’s money outta my pocket. And I, I think it’s important for students to know, um, it’s a real hard fact is, you know, when I was in college, if you got to be a college professor, it seems sweet. You know, like you get to do the thing you’re interested in and you—��

Miri: You’d made it.

Jacob: You made it. �۱��.��

Miri: It was the end goal.��

Jacob: You’d get to put on your tweed. Yep. Exactly. You put, you get your higher degrees. You, you, you take on debt, you like, you know, burn through your twenties and maybe your thirties living like a grad student. And then you can get a professor job and you’re okay. You getting put on your tweed coat with the patches and, and like, and, and it’s chill. But, but that, that is a relic of, um, of the, of the, uh, 1900s, let’s just say. Um, the reality for the vast majority of faculty like myself is that we are, like Ben alluded to, basically academic gig workers. Folks will teach individual classes. They’re called adjuncts, and I’m an adjunct. It’s a sucks to be in the situation, but I’m a proud adjunct and I’m an organizing adjunct. But the way that it works is that we take classes, at a time. We have shorter contracts. We oftentimes don’t have access to benefits in healthcare. That’s different here for reasons I’ll get to in a while. The “too-long-didn’t-read” version of it is that because we have good organizing and, and organized for good contracts.

Miri: Because of people like you and Ben.��

Jacob: Well, yes, and the people really before us. I don’t wanna take too much, you know, of, of that, but it’s, it’s really important. So 70% of the faculty that teach at PCC are part-time adjuncts like me. I know my colleagues, some of the best teachers I know, uh, I’ve ever met, and I’ve been teaching for almost 15 years now at college and university level. Some of the best teachers I know at this institution are on food stamps. Many of us have to hop around between three, four institutions to make ends meet. Um, people drive Uber. It’s like you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t ima— college teachers in this country, and it’s not just PCC, but PCC is like right in the middle of the 70%, uh, adjunct faculty teaching classes. Um. The vast majority of folks that teach college and university courses are really on the edge, so things like this small insulting COLA in an era of high inflation is, like, existential for the vast majority of American and PCC teachers. So to have your meager paychecks that were already getting paid be worth less an actual value, um, is not just an insult it’s like an existential threat for our ability to make ends meet.��

Miri: And especially with, and these, with what you just just said about having, having one of your classes just, Nope! Taken away from you.��

Jacob: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: You know, so something that you have no control over.��

Jacob: It was filled. My classes are— are, you know, are filled and have almost filled wait list, so like it’s, it’s it, yeah. It– it’s really —, it’s really frustrating and scary.��

Miri: Yeah, so then combining just nabbing classes with 0.35%, which again, that just seems like someone put the period in the wrong place on accident, like they were reaching for the zero and they hit period instead.

Jacob: Yeah, it would be awesome if they listen to that—that logic. But, um, they— they won’t. And that’s what we’re up against. The majority of the teachers at ˿����Ƶ are really— it’s an existential threat for us to take such a low COLA right now. It affects our day-to-day, our ability to make ends meet. And so I want everybody to realize that. It is a really part of it being a big tent union where we have full-time faculty and academic professionals, so advisors and stuff, and this massive group of part-time faculty is that there’s— there are people on very different levels of security in our— what’s called “bargaining” that our union represents.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Jacob: The majority of us are really on the edge like this. And these— these, you know, non-existent COLAs really affect not only our, you know, ability to teach and do our work and keep up with students, but if we’re running between two, three, sometimes four schools to teach or, you know, taking on other part-time gigs during the teaching year, we don’t have that time to— to focus. We’re exhausted, we’re worried, and we’re not gonna be the best we can be in our classroom for our students. And that’s outrageous to me. Especially when you have a president who gave herself a 2.5% COLA, you know, and almost an or almost a power of 10 or whatever more than she’s offering us. Plus all the benefits. She gets a $25k retention bonus every year, all these sorts of things, it sounds like madness ’cause it is. Um, and that’s what we’re up against and that’s— that’s what’s pushed us to this— to this point.��

Miri: So how, um, h—how can a strike be avoided? What are the things that need to happen from the administration in order for things to progress in the way that everyone wants them to?��

Jacob: So they— the short of it is that they can come to us with a real contract or with a real possibility, a real COLA, something that we can pass. Cause we have to — we’re a democratic institution, so our members have to agree to any, um, any deal that we make out, even outside of the strikes. Uh, the members voted to strike, and the members have to vote on a contract if it comes through. Um, so they gotta do that and they gotta do that now. It’s really frustrating and I think a little, I’d say concerning that they haven’t, as, as of this point, done that this week. So this weekend, last week, we had our Strike Authorization Vote for our union, FFAP and FCE, our sister union, we’re really tied together. And we’re— we’re lockstep in terms of timing for how these things will happen to inflict the most pain on administration and get this over with quickly if it’s needed. Um, we both voted 94% to authorize the strike. And we had between, 86% for us and over 90% turnout for FCE. So high turnout. This is, you know: Our members, uh, of your teachers, everybody that works at the college, IT, janitors, everybody. They think this is ridiculous. And they— they want it to stop and they’re willing to withhold their labor. How do we avoid that? Is that they realize that and come up with a better offer. In lieu of that, we keep putting pressure on them, which is what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna show up to every little— every little fringe, um, you know, back-patting thing that they have we’re gonna continue to do. Practice pickets and prepare for it as well as we can, um, within each other, as faculty and— and workers as well.��

Miri: Yeah, there was a demonstration at Cascade two Thursdays ago from when this is being recorded, um, which also coincided with the student walkout that had been going on. And I talked to the organizer of the student walkout and she said that she had been working closely with union, um, representatives to time things together and work together to keep pressure on the school to actually respond to student needs and, um, and— and staff needs, faculty needs. How— how did that go? What, is that something that’s going to be happening more and more before a strike happens?��

Jacob: Oh boy. I hope so. And I know you’re talking about Alena Slee. She’s a force of nature. Um, I do want to be clear though, that the student walkout was an entirely student organized, and run walkout. The walkout was to, um— to save Music and Sonic Arts. The communication we had together was, oh, we have, um— we as faculty and, um, the— the CTE folks as well, the classified staff wanted to do a rally that same day. We’ll just do it a little bit earlier than the students were planning their walkout. So both, yes. Yeah. Sorry. We could support— we could support them. They could support— No, don’t— don’t—don’t apologize. I— I, um, and then the way that student organizers have been working with, um, faculty organizers in the Save Music Sonic Arts campaign has been really closely, and that’s been really amazing. For, as a faculty member to work with students— again, it’s not my program, not the one I teach in, so but— but to have the students, uh, show up to us, show up to the same meetings, ’cause you know, to take, really take stock in the, program and want to take solace in it, take solidarity with the other students and with faculty, has been really, really, really powerful. The, um— the whole strike thing for us and for classified staff. And then the Save Music and Sonic Arts campaign, they’re separate, right? Um, you know, one’s entire college wide, one’s about a specific program, but they— they reflect, both similar frustrations with leadership and administration and failures of that leadership and administration, but also similar hopes and dreams for something better.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Jacob: I think two things is like two star, like a binary star system that are kind like—��

Miri: Yeah, absolutely.��

Jacob: They’re rotating, like they’re— they’re— they’re drawn to each other and they feed off of each other in a— in a good way.��

Miri: And they both come from a place of love for PCC, and what it does, and what it means to everyone who’s a part of it.��

Jacob: Absolutely. I’ve taught at at least half a dozen colleges and universities. Some, you know, really expensive private schools, state schools, and PCC is my favorite place. I wanna stay here. I want to, you know, work the rest of my career here, which is part of why I feel the pressure to do this organizing and to stand up for it.��

Miri: That’s something I hear a lot from a lot of people, like both from students who, even for myself at least, I was at a very expensive private school studying audio engineering and all that stuff. And then I wasn’t getting what I wanted from it, and then came back to PCC only because it had exactly the program that I had been looking for, which was the Music Sonic Arts program. Woohoo!

Jacob: That’s so fantastic.��

Miri: And I know a ton of other people that I’ve talked to, both— both in a professional capacity, like this in interviews, and just, classmates, coworkers, people at CoffeeHouse 5 across the street who also came back to PCC, because it has just a supportive environment where a lot of universities are losing that more and more rapidly.��

Jacob: Absolutely.��

Miri: Especially at Cascade, where, you know, we have a lot of creative-based programs here. Like we have art and we have film and multimedia. All that stuff is here and that just lends itself to being part of an external community.��

Jacob: Um, and I—I feel it too. It’s, it’s a really great energy at Cascade and, and it’s— and if anything, I, you know, when I first started it was, um, I mean, pandemic’s still ongoing, but it was sort of toward the tail end of the— of the worst of it.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Jacob: And— and to see the campus really come alive and then build through the— the— the student organizing towards saving the music tonic arts program, it’s— it’s— it’s such a great place to be.��

Miri: So, if the strike goes through, how do we support the people affected by it? How do we support students? And then how do we support the faculty and staff?��

Jacob: Sure. So, um, the way that it’ll look. So I guess like the way that I’m doing it for my— my courses, is I’ve been talking with my students about it for, you know, at least a month that this strike looks like it’s coming. Here’s what’s gonna happen. Um, so if, if this, our strike date is, uh— is tentatively planned for March 11th. We were really strategic about that day. Um, it helps out a lot of the workers in certain ways, but also it applies a lot of pressure on administration. And it’s. easier in some ways on students, I believe, than if it started in the beginning of the next term, where it would hit right around registration deadlines, and financial aid would be difficult, and all those sorts of things might get tied up. So what I— what I did with my courses, it is like— okay, I usually have kind of like three units. I’m kind of shortening the last unit. They’re based around creative projects, and I’m shortening that last one to a series of exercises and just kind of cutting things off a little bit so I will be done by before the strike hits. I’m advertising this also as like a— as a possible model. I’m not sure like it’s necessarily worthy of that, but like it’s something for other faculty to think about. And then I’m going to crank, crank, crank right before, like, uh— pull an all nighter before, if the strike goes through, on grading and get the students an email that has like what their final grade will be when the strike is over as like as close as I can estimate it as possible with what the— with the material I have.��

Miri: Just to alleviate some of their stress and worries?

Jacob: Yeah. It’s not like, yeah. So they’re not like, “Oh, I have no idea what’s going on.” And they, students won’t lose credit, they’ll just get the credit once the strike is over and the final grades go through, if final grades have to be postponed. And that’s if they have to be postponed. We’re hoping and not— we’re hope— we’re hoping administration comes to their senses, but they don’t seem to have a lot of senses, uh, with this group of bozos at the top here. So I don’t necessarily trust, but we have to keep applying pressure. So that’s— that’s what I’m doing. I’m basically like shaving off a little bit of the, the later work and what would be kind of like, goes through the finals period of time. I have some flexibility. Others— other faculty don’t. And we’ve had some really intense and I think productive conversations within our union and with faculty who have like, where— where the timetable is more difficult to adjust like that. And so what we’re saying to all hold together is that what we— things we can’t do while we’re on strike, but, uh, you know, we’re leaving like how faculty adjusts getting up until that point up to them. For instance, there’s might be some flexibility on if I’m gonna leave my D2L shells that have, you know, examples and have kind of how-to-guides, uh, live, even though I’m not gonna be adding or— or evaluating any new material on it. Um, other faculty are just are totally turning their off. So you’ll go there and it’ll be a blank— blank slate. Um, there’s some flexibility there. And so long as you’re not, you know, grading, not answering emails, not holding classes as the main point of work stoppage. But circling back to your question, how can, if students— if folks wanna help each other, how we’re helping each other in, uh, as faculty? We have, um, both an ongoing hardship fund, that I recommend faculty apply to for, um, the deadlines coming up. It’s the 20— February 24th. Right now, the deadline’s the 28th. That’s a sort of regular thing we have. We’ve also been building a strike fund over the years that we’ll distribute. Uh, what we need to figure out. Um, I don’t know the exactly parameters of how we’ll distribute that to our— to our faculty and AP workers. And then also AFT our sort of parent union, uh, American Federation of Teachers, has some strike funds as well. There’s also, Oregon has a wonderful new law that allows for workers on strike to get unemployment insurance for up to 10 weeks. Um, so I recommend any faculty listening to get that, uh— get that lined up for March 11th and apply right away. There’s some kinda like waiting periods, but it’d be good to kind of get in that system. For students. Um, like Ben mentioned earlier, um, we’re hoping that our picketing at all the campuses will not just be sort of a show of force administration. Will be a place of community aid as well. Um, where we’ll have food, we’ll have some other resources for folks or students who might not get that otherwise, if the, you know, dining halls are closed, et cetera, et cetera. Um, we have resources for broad— more broad community aid connections, in Portland.

Miri: I just think it’s interesting that this is so. That everything you’ve been talking about, and so much of the stuff that Ben was talking about as well, is focused on community aid and mutual aid and people working together to support each other and themselves. And not, I don’t know, not just crossing their fingers, closing their eyes and closing the door. Um, not just waiting it out with the— the rock rolled over the—the entrance. Um, having all the people work together to, and even to just continue to support students as a priority, which I think shows the dedication of everyone who’s gonna be involved in this. Their priority is students and to help students. They have to also take care of themselves, which is something that the administration is not— not seeming receptive to.��

Jacob: Yes. Our, I mean, faculty, our working conditions— our working conditions are students’ learning conditions. So, we have to look out for both. Um, and throughout all the conversations we’ve had within our union, um, all the concerns really, you know, we’re all concerned about ourselves, but so many people are concerned about how this affects our students and to minimize that impact. Um, and, uh, we’re working really hard to make— make that happen, but we can only go so far as administration is willing. Uh, if they’re willing to burn it down, then we’re gonna have, you know, problems. So I think that, uh— that students, if they wanna support, if they wanna make this quick show— show up at some of the picket lines, um, I would, to be honest, I’m not even sure that any of the communications that are being sent to the president’s office or even to the board of, uh, directors are going through at this point. Um, if they are, they’re certainly not paying attention to them. So I would really prioritize, uh, showing up in person. Um, we’re working hard. To make our pickets, um, uh, accessible, um, in a lot of different ways to make our actions going on forward, um, uh, accessible to, uh— to focus hard of hearing and all different ways. We’ve sort of failed in that way, I think, up until this point. Uh, but now what we’re really, uh, angling that way, but, and also providing, uh, food, providing, um, space, uh, for people to— to be there at the picket line, but to take part in a way that works for them and to be able to, um— to gain access to community aid and, um— and just sort of to be part of community as well if— if those things are missing, uh, when the school is shut down.

Miri: So what is the outlook at PCC right now? How are people feeling about leadership and about how that will? About what that will make the future?

Jacob: So, um, leadership is looking real bad right now if you ask me. Um, they’re not doing themselves any favors. And the reality of it is that this president and this board of directors from this point out, when you Google their names, they’ll have attached to them, uh, that they had the only student walkout in, uh, on their watch in— in PCC history, at least that I’ve heard of. And the only strike in PCC history that has ever happened as far as I can— as far as a quick Google search will tell you. And so that’s not a good look for any of these people if they’re looking to, um— to continue on and, um, uh, you know, use this as a lily pad, which unfortunately happens a lot with college administrations.

Miri: Is that a common feeling right now that a lot of the administration is using this as something on their resume?��

Jacob: Yes. Definitely, certainly in the—in the president’s administration, however, they— so that’s, that’s my pooh-pooh, for those folks to get their— get their act together and that’s the, unless they want that to be their legacy, which is really, it’s starting to solidify that that will be their legacy. However, um, and I wanna attribute this in particular to the student activists. Uh, for the Save MSA campaign, we’ve had some really great, uh, relationships built with individual members of the board of directors of PCC. So their, ostensibly, their job is, um. They’re publicly elected by— by region in the, in PCC’s area, uh, you know, publicly elected like any other, you know, like city council or any other official. And their job is to oversee the president and the, um, the administration they’re in. They’re in general failing in that— in that, um, in their job. However, we have, um, had some great conversations. We have a number of, I say really strong advocates on the board of directors whose relationships have been built through the faculty and in particular the student— um, students involved in the Save MSA campaign. And I think that those relationships are something to build from. I think a new PCC will be born from the good people on the board of directors who are working actually at the, um, who care about the students, who care about the institution. The other people will come or go as they, you know, as they will, but, and I— I don’t want to pay them too much. Mine, I don’t think they’re worth it. But, um, because I have done so for over a year with these various campaigns. Um, but the people that are worth, um, that— that really put the school first to put their constituents first and our students first, I think there’s some hope there and I’m excited about that to grow from it. And so that’s— that’s— that’s leadership. But then on the flip side of it. I, you know, I’ve never been in a working situation where there’s been so much unity with my other, my fellow workers as— as here. And then same with students, the student activism that’s been going on and students caring about their programs, caring about each other and looking out for each other. I see it every day in my classes. How— how much y’all care for each other, how much you’re excited for each other to succeed. It’s so inspiring. And I’ve never seen that at any other places I’ve taught. So that is, that’s like a— that’s a spirit that’s not, uh, going away no matter what this administration uh, tries to do. So that’s my hope. Um, I have very little hope for the few figureheads at the, um, at the top of the— of the whatever ladder. Uh, but I have—��

Miri: Inverted triangle?��

Jacob: Yeah, exactly. But I have a ton of hope for— for the rest of us. And I think that we should, you know, lean on each other, rely on each other, uh, help each other out and make a noise to really push, um, uh, push our future through here.

Miri: Me too. I said this at the end of, uh, the last MSA episode I did where PCC is a huge school and a hugely influential school. And I think if the changes that need to be made are made here, then it will make it 10,000 times easier for everyone else going through similar struggles down the line to have something to look at and know that they can do it too, and have a model with which that they can base their efforts off of.

Jacob: I think you’re a hundred percent right. I feel like I already see that happening. I see that happening with my, you know, my partner teaches at Portland State. They’re—they’re—everybody’s paying attention to what’s going on now. There’s a lot of eyes on us and a lot— a lot to be inspired by. I think, um, both with the solidarity shown with, um, workers and educators and— and students as well here.

Miri: Yeah. And, uh, you know, as if it was a perfect visual metaphor, which the poor listeners won’t be able to see, uh, as this conversation’s gone on, the rain has stopped and the sun is finally starting to peak through some of the clouds.��

Jacob: A new day is possible and we just need to make sure, um, uh, we’re, we’re all around and healthy and happy to see it. So I’m excited about that. As to, I— I, overall, I’m excited for the future of this institution. Um, I think we have to all stick together right now— um, to push it through. It’s like, um, uh, it’s not the darkness, uh, it’s not the darkness of the tomb. It’s a darkness of the womb, right? Way to be born.��

Miri: Yeah. And, uh, especially with people like, uh, Alena and like Max and like Drew, who are just. Invested in not just completing their own education time here, but making sure that the people who are coming next and the people who come after that, and people who come after that can have even better opportunities than they themselves have had is inspiring and, uh, powerful. And they’re actually doing something to make that happen. Which, you know, I’ve been— I’ve been kicking around PCC for 10 years now. Uh, so seeing something like this is not something I’ve seen before and it’s— it’s incredibly inspiring.��

Jacob: Same here. I agree.��

Miri: So, um, again, thank you so much for taking time out of your morning to talk to us about this, and I wish you just the absolute best of luck in your negotiations and your, uh, if it comes to it in your strike and everyone getting through easily. Um, are there other resources that people should know about to learn more or keep updates or, you know, find other ways to support?��

Jacob: Yeah, so, um, is our union’s website. There’s lots of information there both geared towards, uh, faculty, general, public, and students as well. Um, and we have two informational, uh, uh, sessions for students happening this week. One is today four to five at Cascade Campus, Terrell Hall. And it’s also on Zoom. Um, maybe we can leave the link somewhere if it can go up. And then there’s one tomorrow, four 30 to five 30. It’s at Southeast actually. Um, and then also on Zoom, where students can go ask questions and get more specific answers. And then in terms of the, um, save music, Sonic Arts, , as a wonderful website with updates and information. And in particular, it has information I think is really useful for everybody in the Portland area, about who your PCC board of director is for your region. Um— and if you have any questions about who are the goodies or the bad easy, anyone can send me a note. I’m happy to answer that question. But just to be involved to realize that the board of directors of the PCC are elected officials, they serve the public. So if they’re not doing their job, they should get the step in and out the door. Um— so those are two resources and I appreciate you, Miri, and all the other workers on this podcast. All students and faculty, uh, and everybody in the public. Your support means a bunch, so thank you. And yeah. Solidarity forever.

Miri: Yes. All right. Thank you very much.

Jacob: Thank you, Miri.

Miri: With the administration, at the time of recording, refusing to budge, and the end of Winter Term approaching, how things are to go down appears uncertain. However, both PCCFFAP and the Associated Students of ˿����Ƶ have resources available for students to help ease some of those feelings. One of the most important steps for students is to get registered for spring term as soon as possible. Even if you don’t yet have prerequisites or aren’t sure what classes you’re supposed to be taking, signing up preemptively will make the transition into term as easy as possible. Additionally, faculty are working hard to try and make sure that student grades, degree planning and financial aid will continue seamlessly, and that community support will be available both in person and . We’re going into something new here and treading into a realm that in the history of PCC has yet to be explored. What is clear though, is that the success and safety of their students is these teachers’ number one priority, and it’s now on the administration to prove the same.

Kylo: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk! ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the accessible education and disability resources department, and the PCC multimedia department. We air new episodes on our ,��, and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Hannah “Asher” Sham

Welcome to Let’s Talk!

Kylo: You are listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk!, is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website, , on Spotify, on , and .

Meet the Hosts & Today’s Topic: Surviving Societal Instability with Disability

Asher: Hello, everybody! My name is Asher, and we also have Asher DeHart with us. And, today we are gonna be talking about surviving societal instability as a person with disability. Do you wanna introduce yourself first, Asher, so we can get started?

Ash: Yeah. Hi, my name’s Asher DeHart. Folks call me “Ash”. I work for PCC AEDR and and PSU, although I took a break this semester because of all the crazy going on in the world. I have done mutual aid and disaster relief for decades, not only in Oregon, but other western states and across the entire United States. I’m a musician and an artist as well and I’m here to share some insight to help people cope with the changing times.

Asher: Sure! Thank you so much for joining me, Ash. And, once again, my name is Asher. I am working as a assistant podcast producer here with the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective. With how stressful life has been recently, we want to talk a bit about how to survive societal instability, especially for people with disabilities, physical and mental.��

Emotional Survival: What Self-Care Really Means

Asher: The first topic is we’re looking at emotional survival and mental survival, which I feel like is pretty important. So, what is self-care to you in your life, Ash?

Ash: Well, self-care to me is how I take care of myself. I think many of us, that are disabled or in other marginalized communities, are oftentimes caretakers and we do a lot of caring for everyone else around us; especially in troubling times like this. Because, we want everyone to be okay. But, in order to do that work, I have to take care of myself first. It’s been a process for me to learn how to practice self-care. But, self-care means doing the things that I need to do so I can be productive, reasonably happy, and effective.

Asher: Yeah, I feel like that’s very important for sure. I think it’s the same way for me; just self care in general. Whenever I’m having a difficult day, or I just need a step back, so I’m not mad at other people. To just do the things I love; at least that’s my definition of self-care.

Ash: No, I definitely agree with you there. It is really important to find positive things that we enjoy doing. To help maintain that status of self-care so we can be effective students, effective community members, effective activists, whatever our task in life is that we’re facing, is important that we can suit up and show up and be our best, even under extremely different difficult circumstances.

Asher: I definitely agree with you on that. Especially, those of us who have disabilities, whether it’s mental or physical disabilities, we need more self-care than anything else. Just to be very gracious with ourselves. I feel like we would struggle a lot more just with daily tasks in general and we just need to be kind to ourselves in that.

Ash: Yes, we do. And something I wanna add is we could have an ideal for self care, but we may not be able to meet that ideal every day or every week or every month. Sometimes we are only able to get part of the ideal met and that’s okay too. We shouldn’t judge ourselves, beat ourselves up, feel negative feelings towards ourself like we’re a failure, because we didn’t hit the mark fully on the self-care ideal. Any positive steps that we take to caring for ourselves so we can in turn care for our communities, our friends, our family is very important and very positive, and folks should be commended for that.

Asher: Definitely.��

Mental Health Supports: Therapy, Nature, Meditation & Community

Asher: You probably know this better than I do, but what are some mental health treatments? Only recently have I been diagnosed with ADHD and I’ve been to see counselors, therapist, and talking to my doctor of getting medication and all that. But, what are some mental health treatments that’s worked for you, Ash?

Ash: Well, I have ADHD, I have autism spectrum disorder, formerly known as Asperger’s Syndrome, and I also have complex PTSD, and anxiety, and a traumatic brain injury. Um. I have been to therapy for many years and I’m still in therapy. The standard pharma medication does not work for me, because I’m sensitive to medication. So, I have sought out naturopathic treatments for these conditions under the care of a doctor and I also use hemp-based CBD products that are free from THC. But, other things that I’ve done to help with mental health treatment, that are a little more outside the box than standard western medicine, yoga, meditation, I do a lot of time in nature. I spend a lot of time hiking in the forest and Forest Park and other parks. Because, it has been clinically proven that spending time in nature raises all the brain hormones and things up there that we need to feel healthy and good about ourselves. So, there’s a lot of different options as far as mental health besides the standard Westernized model. Support groups are also very good to participate in. Some people rely on 12 Step programmings, church, or other religious organizations to help cope with the things that they have going on. It’s a very wide spectrum of choice, as to what you can, do to increase your mental health capacity and to feel better. Especially, during these precarious times. I think one of the biggest is just community.

Asher: Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that, other than therapy sessions. I also have my own Christian community support group that I go to on a weekly basis, as well, just to help verbally, process things and to, get support from people and in turn help other people. I feel like is also very important with these trying times. It’s a give and take of helping other people and also receiving help at the same time, especially in community support situations.

Ash: Exactly, and oftentimes people who are disabled, or from marginalized communities, don’t know how to receive. We know how to give, and we know how to give, and we know how to give. But, sometimes we don’t know how to receive and I suffered with that for a really long time. ‘Cause with complex PTSD and being traumatized at a young age I became very self-reliant on me, and me alone, because I had a hard time trusting people. Over the years, I’ve had to work through that and I had to learn how to trust people to help me. In doing so, it’s made my life so much better and I just celebrated 12 years clean in November, which is just a really wonderful thing. Because, I was able to allow people to help me.

Asher: Congratulations! That’s definitely something to celebrate, for sure! I hope you’re taking yourself out to celebrate, or at least celebrating with some friends that have helped you along the way in that!

Ash: Definitely! There was birthday cake!

Asher: Yes! Let’s go! That’s always the best thing!��

Healthy vs. Harmful Coping: How to Reach Out and Build Connection

Asher: I think you touched on a very great topic, as far as healthy co coping mechanisms in that of reaching out versus being afraid to reach out. What would you say is a healthy coping mechanism of reaching out to people?

Ash: So, here’s a healthy coping mechanism. You might decide to volunteer at the local animal shelter, or you might decide to volunteer serving meals down at Blanche House, or you might go on Meetup and find a hiking group or a book club or another group that shares a common interest that you may have. A detrimental coping mechanism could be; you might go to the bar every night hoping to make friends. And, for some people that’s okay but, for a lot of people, that could lead to excess drinking and putting oneself in situations that could be hurtful or dangerous. So, I learned a long time ago that the bar was not the place for me to make healthy connections. I learned how to make healthy connections with people at school, with people at work, with people that were doing mutual aid in the community, helping other houseless people, things like that. It took me a while to have the courage to be able to do that; it took years. Because, my first few years back in Portland, my trauma was so strong. I had a hard time making friends. I had a hard time reaching out. It took a long time, but I did it one step at a time. And, some days it was baby steps, other days it was bigger steps. Then there were some days where I had a few steps back and isolated more. So, there is a spectrum to developing healthy coping mechanisms. Everyone’s timeline is a little different, but there’s many options out there, especially here in Portland, for finding ways to build community and healthy ways.

Asher: Yeah, for sure.��

Finding Community in Portland: The ‘Portland Freeze’ & Giving People Grace

Asher: I relate to your story, and I’m sorry that you had to go through all that too. It’s difficult right now, especially in this day and age, where I feel like a lot of things are online and trying to meet with people in person; it’s difficult. Especially if it’s like a really big community group. You sometimes get lost, or, if it’s a smaller community group, it’s pretty tight knit and it’s difficult to get in and meet people and make potential lifelong friends. But, I’m also glad that you managed to find the support you needed.

Ash: And, I’m glad that you found it too. Portland does have a freeze. Their whole Reddit page is devoted to the Portland Freeze. People are friendly and nice here, but when it comes to really making friends, it can be difficult. I think a lot of that ties into the neurodivergency in this town. There are so many neurodivergent people in this town. Folks want to be friends, folks want to reach out, folks want to do things; and yet, sometimes, when it comes to taking that step, they don’t know what to do. So, you don’t get that phone call from the person you gave your number to, or that person that you were going to have coffee with might have canceled. But, it isn’t for us to take that personally. I’ve chosen to look at it from the standpoint of perhaps this person too feels nervous or scared, or may be neurodivergent, or have other mental health issues that are preventing them from stepping fully into the arena of friendship and community. I try to allow people the space to do that, because it was definitely given to me when I wasn’t able.

Asher: I definitely agree with that.��

Resource Roundup: Support Groups, Street Roots & Disability Master Lists

Asher: What are some resources for families and individuals? Support groups or communities, people that we can reach out to whenever we’re having a difficult time?��

Ash: There’s a lot of groups. Particularly for the autism folks, Oregon has a number of autism self-help groups. There’s a number of community groups centered around neurodivergent people. I think we’re gonna list those all at the bottom of the podcast page, so people can take a look through there. Also, one that I like to stop by is downtown. It’s the Maybelle Center for Community, it’s right in Chinatown, and it’s a place for community. It’s a lovely spot and anyone can go there. Housed, unhoused, everyone is welcome. It’s a place for folks to sit and talk and find community. Also, too, I’ve met a lot of really great people volunteering for the Blanche House. Because, there’s all kinds of people that spend time, volunteering there. I’ve met a lot of great folks that way as well. Again, there’s lots of stuff on Meetup too. All kinds of different organizations and groups. If you’re a student at PCC, there’s all kinds of things on campus where you can make community. The Women’s Resource Center, the Queer Resource Center, the Veterans Resource Center, and all kinds of clubs and activities. Community is there so, whenever you’re ready, reach out and find what matters to you and meet people that share those interests.

Asher: Definitely! Thank you so much for sharing all those different resources. We’ll definitely place them at the very bottom of the podcast in our resource list. If you want even just reach out to a local church or a local religious group, as well. I’ve only found out about this recently, but there’s something called, ““, and correct me if I’m wrong, Ash…

Ash: Oh, yeah! “Portland Street Roots”. “The Street Roots” are the folks that put out the newspaper and, the formerly houseless people, write for and sell. Some people, still houseless, are involved in that project and they also put out the little books with all the resources that you see around town. There’s also a lot of resources there that are available; anywhere from housing, to community, to medical, to groceries, all kinds of stuff. There’s also the Oregon Disability Resources master list. That was compiled by the University of Oregon and it’s called “Able Find”. That has everything that you could ever need for disability resources across the entire state. We will post that at the bottom of the podcast.

Asher: That’s so cool! Yeah, I didn’t know about that little booklet until a friend of mine shared it with me, because she was in need. She was like, “oh yeah, I found this really cute little booklet that a community member gave me!”. I took a look at it and, man, it’s a hefty read! But, it’s also encouraging to see how many resources are available in Portland. All you need to do is just look it up and just ask, really.

Ash: Yes, and it covers not only Multnomah County, but also Clackamas and Washington.

Asher: Yeah, for sure.��

Physical Survival: Food Help, SNAP Gaps, Pantries & Meal Delivery

Asher: With that, that is a great segue into our next topic, which is about physical survival. Recently there was that whole government shutdown and SNAP Benefits being delayed and all that. It was very heartening to see local coffee shops come together to provide food for those who have missed their SNAP Benefit Payments, and are unable to provide for themselves.

Ash: I haven’t had some experience on this recently helping others to locate food who had lost their food stamps. Again, the street roots guide has every food bank in the city listed. So, that’s an excellent source of information on where to get box meals, meals to go. I’m a big fan of “Neighborhood House” up in Southwest Portland. They serve the Southwest side of town and parts of the Northwest side of town, but anyone can go there and they have lots of fresh produce and they’re open several days a week. There’s a plethora of food pantries around the city. Again, Blanche House has meals to go and sit down breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You can find times on their website. All your social service organizations like “, and they use salvaged items that are donated from restaurants and other organizations, and they cook both a meat based meal and a vegan meal once a week. You can sign up on Wednesdays and that meal is delivered to your door on Saturdays. No questions asked. It’s really great and it’s super helpful to be able to get a hot meal to folks if they’re hungry. Also if we have any students or listeners today that are seniors, Meals on Wheels is still servicing the Portland area, despite cuts from the Federal Government. So, if you are disabled or 60, I believe it’s either 60 or 65 or older, and you need food service; please get ahold of them and they would deliver hand cooked healthy meals to you. and others give out meals, snacks. There’s lots of ways to get food in the city if you need to eat. Another really great organization is the “

Asher: I’ve heard a lot about Meals on Wheels. I heard that their meals are pretty good too.

Ash: We also have heaps of Free Food Markets and Farmer’s Markets in the city. They have the PSU farmers’ market, they have Farmer’s Markets available in all different neighborhoods. PSU and PCC both are doing free food markets. I think that’s really wonderful for students and faculty alike. Both have the food pantry, so that no one is going hungry on campus.

Asher: Oh, yeah. For sure. I heard about the Free Food Market only recently; running through hard times myself and needing to find a couple things to fill the pantry. The Free Food Market, especially at PCC, is a great resource, that you could find on the Panther Hub and also on the PCC home webpage.

Ash: Definitely.

Shelter 101: Overnight vs. Transitional Shelters (and Housing Barriers)

Asher: What are different kinds of shelters available? And once again, Ash, you’re the most knowledgeable out of the two of us. Tell us a little bit about all these different shelters that we talked about initially. First, “overnight shelters”. What are those?

Ash: Okay. So, overnight shelters, also known as emergency shelters, are short term overnight beds for folks who are in need of shelter. What that translates to is you go to the shelter, we’ll take the one over up in Northwest Portland, on 14th, you line up, you get a bed, you get a nice meal, you get to sleep, and then they wake you up the next morning and you are on your way. It is not a reserved bed situation. So, you’re not gonna come back to the same bed every night. You could be in a different bed, or you might have to go to a different shelter. Basically, that’s what an overnight shelter is, or also known as an emergency shelter.

Asher: Oh, interesting. Wow. What about transitional shelters?

Ash: Transitional shelters are a little bit different than overnight shelters. A transitional shelter is a shelter where you come in and you maintain the same bed and you are able to store your stuff there in a locker. You come in every night at a certain time, check in, et cetera. Most of them have a curfew. But, you come home to the same bed every night. That provides a bit more stability, especially for students and working folks, because you’re not running pillar to post trying to figure out where you’re gonna stay. If Overnight Shelter A is full and Overnight Shelter B is full where am I going to go? A transitional shelter is a guaranteed bed. Some have no exit date like the TPI Couple Shelter, and other shelters run by TPI. They do not have an exit date and you can stay as long as you need to, as long as you abide by the program rules. And, some have exit dates of six months to a year, two years. It just depends on the organization that’s running it.

Asher: I bet. Correct me if I’m wrong transitional shelters, in this sense, is for people who are looking for housing? Or is that a different kind of shelter where they stay there, but they’re also in like a queue for low income housing?

Ash: Many folks who are at Transitional Shelters are in queue. They have a voucher or they’re waiting on a voucher. They’re either looking for an apartment or waiting for that voucher to come through, so they can get the apartment and move out of the shelter into long-term housing. But, you also have people at transitional shelters who do not have a voucher, who are working, or going to school, and they are utilizing services their until they can, maybe, get the savings up. Because, landlords require so much now to rent in Portland and the surrounding areas in Oregon. You have to make three times the rent. You have to have a certain amount of money in savings. You have to have been at your job at least six months. And, that’s for all parties involved in a housing situation, in a standardized apartment, or house rental. So, not everyone has that, so they’re able to utilize the transitional shelter until they can get that job that’s going to help them move into better housing situation, or they have the job and are waiting to get the savings up, so that the landlord will approve. There are transitional shelters for families as well. So, that is the difference between an overnight shelter and a transitional shelter.

Asher: That’s very cool. Yeah, I have a couple of friends who were in transitional shelters, at one point, and then they transitioned out into more permanent housing, or into roommate situations too. I totally agree with you, with the idea of rental stuff; it’s so difficult that there are so many different kinds of conditions. Even when you move into a rental agreement there are some things that you’re not allowed to do. Especially, in my situation where I’m living at, I’m not allowed to have guests in the home, unless clearly specified during the day and no overnight guests as well that makes sense too. But, it’s also just very difficult to plan around get together with friends from outside of the home and you always just need to meet outside and stuff, which is very difficult.

Ash: We’ve seen since the pandemic that landlords have just become tighter and stricter, and stricter, and stricter. I can understand why landlords want good tenants. I’m not really here to discuss that. What I’m here to discuss is that some of the landlords have become so stringent that it’s just denying people housing. Especially, disabled, persons, and persons from other marginalized communities. So, at what point does an overzealous landlord, become discrimination? That’s perhaps a topic we can discuss on another podcast. But, people wonder, they’re like, “why are there so many houseless people in Portland?”. Well, because the landlords want things that most of the general public just don’t have. You have to be in a certain income bracket to even begin to qualify for housing unless you’re getting subsidized housing. Then there’s a wait for that too.

Asher: Oh yeah, for sure. Definitely.��

Safety & Specialized Housing: DV Shelters, Youth Shelters, and Sober Housing

Asher: The next shelter is “Domestic Violence Shelters”. Tell me a bit about those. It’s also very self-explanatory itself, right?

Ash: So, domestic violence shelters are shelters that accommodate folks who have faced domestic violence in the home, sexual violence, human trafficking, child abuse, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, stalking. The spectrum of what is entailed under the title of “Domestic Violence” is quite wide. So, if you have been a victim of any of those that I just listed, you would qualify to be housed at a DV shelter. DV shelters are normally very confidential, they’re in confidential locations. There are certain sets of protocols that, participants and staff abide by for the safety of all those who live and work there. It is a safe place for individuals; male, female, trans, non-binary, other marginalized genders, children, and their pets can come and seek shelter, seek safety, and rebuild their lives after a devastating incident of violence in the home or other DV related incidents.

Asher: With Domestic Violence shelters, is there a period of time for people to be in those shelters, or are they able to stay like indefinitely, or is it like a case by case kind of basis?

Ash: It is a case by case basis. It also varies from state to state and program to program. If we have any listeners today, who are being abused, I just wanna say that has happened to me in my life when I was younger. There is help out there and I came through it, and you will come through it too. If you are in the Portland Metro area, you can call the ““. You can also call, ““, and you do not have to call the police to receive services if you do not want to call the police. YWCA also has a domestic violence program and there are countless organizations in the city; such as “Rafael House” and others that you can get referred to. They also have the “Address Confidentiality Program” in Oregon and that is a safe mailing address so you can receive your mail without fear of interference from a batterer, or trying to find out where you might be.

Asher: Oh, wow. That’s a lot of moving pieces. You’re right to say that it’s definitely like by a case by case basis. Maybe some people need to stay a little bit longer, or some people are just looking to get out of the country or state. I’m sure there are services that help in that.

Ash: Yes, there are. There are relocation services here in Oregon for persons who are being abused of all genders. So, if someone needs that, “A Call To Safety” or “Gateway” can help with that too. Because, a call to safety and gateway are the two. Big organizations that place people and they are 24/ 7. There’s also the ““, which we can list at the end when we do the resources list. We’ll make sure to have all that in too.

Asher: Oh, yeah. Definitely. The next kind of shelter is a Youth Shelter. What’s a Youth Shelter?

Ash: So, Youth Shelters are for young people who are not with their parents or legal guardians for whatever reason. Youth Shelters, generally, take children and, I think it’s up to 23, here in Portland, from six to 21, 22, 23. These are shelters for children or unaccompanied minors who’ve been abused and they have various confidential locations throughout the city for Portland’s youth who have been abused. They tend to house children within their own age group. So, the older kids will be in the older kids’ house, and the younger kids will be in the younger kids’ house. They help children who do not have the option of going back home, children or teenagers who may have been kicked out for being trans, or non-binary, or another marginalized gender, children who may have been kicked out for being gay, kids whose parents just chose to abuse them, for whatever reason. These are safe places, that young people can go to receive help. And Portland, again, has several agencies for, youth that are in need. One of the main ones is right downtown near Powell’s, and it’s called ““. So, if we have anyone listening today who’s being abused in that age group, stop by “New Avenues for Youth” or try to give them a call and get some help. Because, you deserve to be safe, you deserve to be heard, and you deserve to be accepted just how you are and for who you are.

Asher: Oh, definitely. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Is there also a transitional period or like you said, that they house up to 25, or was it 23?

Ash: I think it’s 23 in Oregon. It varies from state to state, but I’ll have to double check that one. There are short term programs, there are longer term programs and there are programs to help get kids get into housing. I know that ““, also in the southwest region of downtown, outside in does a lot of work with the youth that are on the streets too. So, if you can’t make it over to “New Avenues For Youth”, you can stop by “Outside In” and request services there or give them a call. Again, if you are a young person who is being abused at home, or in whatever situation you are living in, you can seek help without having to call the police if you don’t want to.

Asher: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Next is Sober Housing. I can sort of guess just by the name itself; Sober Housing basically is for those who are getting out of drug use and alcohol use, probably.

Ash: Sober housing is for folks that are in recovery from substance or alcohol. Most sober housing requires complete abstinence from all drugs and substances, including THC, even though it’s legal. You have privately run sober housing, that’s run by individuals in the community. You can also have sober housing that’s run by the ““, which is a long time group that’s been around for decades that provides sober housing for folks. A lot of organizations that we’ve already discussed in our discussion of shelters; domestic violence, they too have options for sober housing. TPI just opened a sober shelter for folks who are houseless, but that are trying to maintain recovery, or who just choose not to drink, or take any kind of drugs or smoke weed and would like to be in an environment where, they’re not going to have a bunk mate, in the next row over, that might be drinking or using.

Asher: Are there also, once again, long-term programs and short-term programs for sober housing situations?

Ash: There are. And, there’s sober living where you can just go for a couple of months. There’s sober living that’s more intensive to where it could be a year to two years. It just depends basically on what you need as an individual. The rents tend to be quite less than what you would pay for a room in a house, or in an apartment.

Asher: So, for sober housing, different from shelters of course, you would need to pay like a fee to have a place��

Ash: yes, but there are agencies that help cover sober living costs, especially when someone’s first getting outta treatment and needing to go to sober living. There are organizations that help cover that. If you’re a musician who has published anything, “” actually pays for treatment, sober living, and therapy. So, they’re a great resource if we have any listeners today that are published, musicians in need of help. Get a hold of “Music Cares” in Los Angeles. They’re a subsidiary of the Grammy Corporation.

Asher: Oh, wow. All the way in LA. Wow!

Ash: Yeah, and they helped people all over the United States. They helped me.

Asher: Oh, sweet! All these shelters, we’ll put all the different resources definitely down in the, resource links below.��

Rental Help, PCC Care Team, and Eviction Defense Resources

Asher: Are there any other housing and rental assistance, or eviction defense and other PCC Housing Resources that you can think of, Ash?

Ash: Sure! Housing and rental assistance is a big one. “” does a lot of work in that area. I know that TPI provides rental assistance to their clients; when they find a place they help them get things paid for. Again, Street Roots, your number one go-to guide for everything you might need. As far as social services, they have a whole section that lists rental assistance in all three counties; Multnomah, Washington, and Clackamas. Local churches oftentimes will do housing and rental assistance too for both people that visit their church and also for folks that don’t, as charitable contributions. I think “Rose Haven” does some rental assistance. I’m not sure how much. But, again, we’re so lucky here in Portland that even though you may have difficulty finding housing; once you do find housing there are folks there that can step up and help you get that first month’s rent, that last month’s rent, and that deposit together. “” does a lot of work in that area, “

Asher: Are there any PCC housing resources that you know of, Ash?��

Ash: I know that The Care Team, Haley and them in that office, they do great work when a student becomes houseless or needs stable housing. I know that PCC just opened an apartment building that’s low income for students. I recall reading about that. But, if you’re in need of housing resources and you’re a PCC student. You can go to the Queer Resource center, you can go to the Women’s Resource Center, you can go to the Veterans Resource Center, you can talk to a professor, or someone in student services, and they will write a referral to The Care Team. You can meet with a care representative who can discuss your situation with you privately and get you the help that you need. They’re great folks in that office. They work really hard to help PCC students and their families. If anyone’s listening and needs assistance, don’t be afraid to reach out for help ’cause the help is there.

Asher: I wish I would’ve been able to reach out to, PCC Housing Resources back when I first started with PCC. I didn’t really make a very good choice with my first living situation. I looked for a place to live in on Craigslist of all places! I was very young and uneducated during that time. So, that was… But, you live and you learn and I’m glad to hear that there are all these different housing resources in case I ever do come into rough times and all that. So, yeah. Highly appreciate that.��

Ash: You also mentioned eviction defense. Clear Clinic is the stalwart in eviction defense here in Portland. Their office used to be located at PCC Cascade, and I would come and work for them on Fridays. I still, hand out flyers for them and stuff. But, they have moved to the East Bank Loss, on Ash Street. They still have the same website, but they are no longer tied to PCC. I think that the work that they were doing, just became so widespread in the community that they needed to spread their wings and grow, and I commend them for what they were doing. So, the Clear Clinic, they do eviction defense, they do expungement for misdemeanors and other expungable offenses in the State of Oregon, they also handle DACA and name and gender changes, and they’re doing wonderful work in this scenario, that we’re currently facing, with immigration law. If you need any of these services go to the website, give them a call, they’re wonderful people and they have wonderful folks that work on the eviction defense team. I’ve seen many success stories come out of the work that they do there for folks who are being faced with losing their housing.

Asher: Yeah, that’s a very important resource, especially just with how expensive everything is getting, just with how the rents are not matching up with the living rates.

Ash: I definitely understand what you mean and there is a need for folks who can do eviction defense in the State of Oregon. Here’s the wonderful thing that a lot of people don’t know; in the State of Oregon you can be a paralegal and do eviction defense. You can only do eviction defense, but you can still do eviction defense without having to be an attorney. So, if we have any paralegals out there that are retired, or someone considering maybe a career in the law, eviction defense is a growing field and it’s wide open for paralegals in Oregon. Take a moment to investigate and see if it’s right for you.

Asher: I love that! I had no idea that was a thing! Legal stuff wise, I thought that would just be like a lawyer’s job. I didn’t know that there was a specific role, as far as, eviction defense and all that.

Ash: Yes, there is in Oregon and we’re really lucky to live in a state that allows that.

Rebuilding Community: Starting Conversations & Coping with Loss

Asher: Community, as far as physical survival. We as humans, we’re not meant to be by ourselves. We’re meant to be with other people, whether you’re introverted or you’re very extroverted, you wanna be around people. The first question, for me is it’s been difficult also just over the years, is how do you reach out to people when you don’t know how to? When I first came here to the States, I didn’t know anybody. I didn’t know anybody at all. The only people I really knew were the family that I, pretty much, couch surfed with and even then it was difficult to just reach out to a community that I met for the first time. What’s your experience in that, Ash?

Ash: It can be very hard to reach out to people when you don’t know how to. Coming from the environment that I was raised in, I really wasn’t shown how to do any of that. So, I had to learn on my own through trial and error. But, for me it’s just always been about going, “Hi! I’m Ash! What’s your name?”. Just a simple act of kindness is saying, “Hi, how are you today?”. You never know, it could open up the doorway to conversation and friendship. So, I just really strive to live my life by just reaching out to people with kindness, reaching out to people with care, even if it’s just a, “Hi! How are you?”, or “have a good evening!”. Just acknowledging other human beings that are in my immediate sphere, in my day-to-day life that I pass, or that I see at work, or the grocery store, or here or there. I’ve made friends through playing music, and I’ve made friends through work, and I’ve made friends through making art; I met my partner at a concert after a protest. So, I had to overcome my fear of humans by learning how to just say, “Hi, I’m Ash! How are you?”. When I got comfortable doing that, over a period of time, then I learned that I could talk more with people beyond that.

Asher: Just taking the initiative and just like reaching out and be like, “Hi! My name is this…”.

Ash: Nine times outta ten, I think other people are afraid to take the initiative now. Just pinging back to the whole technology thing; we love technology, as long as it’s used responsibly. Technology is a good thing. But, it has also trained people not to be forthcoming, in person. Because, everyone’s staring at a laptop, or a screen, or got a phone in their hand, or this, that and the other. So, in-person communication skills are not what they used to be, and I realized that if I wanted to make friends, I needed to take the initiative.

Asher: I’m definitely guilty of that. Of having difficulty, as far as communication wise in person, it’s so much easier just to text people. You’re able to formulate what you wanna say without tripping over your own words and you’re able to delete stuff, you’re able to add things like later on down the line. But, yeah. I totally understand what you’re saying; reaching out and taking the initiative first to reach out to people.��

Ash: In person communication requires the ability to be vulnerable; and for those of us that are marginalized, for those of us that have PTSD, for those of us that are autistic, or with other disabilities, it can be very, very hard to have that vulnerability. So, hard!

Asher: It’s so hard!��

Ash: But, It can be fun!

Asher: Yeah, it can be fun once you like get over the jitters, get over the awkwardness of getting into a conversation, and really start rolling. Then probably, yeah, you would be able to have a very fun time and meeting new people and discovering stories and all that. It’s what I love.

Ash: Yeah, I mean. You helped me so much, Asher. Because, remember when we first met? I was kind of shy and I was nervous and didn’t know if I would fit in working at PCC. But, you and several others, that we all worked together, it’s made such a difference in my life. Like my job with PCC has made such a difference in my life as a human being, as an activist, as an artist, as a musician, as a human. And, it came from the friendliness, and compassion, and acceptance that was shown to me by everybody in the AEDR office. So, hats off to you Asher! ‘Cause, you really helped me!

Asher: Aw! It’s okay! It’s what we at Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective do! We want to spread awareness and we also just wanna make it an inclusive environment for people of all backgrounds, and all nationalities, and all different disabilities. Last question, what can we do if we lose our community? Over the years, just with myself, I’ve gone through so many different communities and a lot of communities that I had to be like, “this is not helping me anymore”, and to step back and other communities that pretty much just “left me on read” or “ghosted”, if I were to put it in like a dating sense, if that makes sense?��

Ash: Yes. There’s a lot of different reasons why someone could lose their community. They might move, they might change schools, they might have had a falling out with someone in the community. There’s a lot of different ways people can lose community, and losing community can absolutely gut a human being. It’s a very hard thing to go through and I’ve been through it once before and it was devastating to me and it contributed a lot to my complex PTSD. It took time to heal from losing the community; working with the therapist, talking that through, becoming okay with myself and realizing that. What happened really wasn’t my fault. That the best thing I could have done for my own self was to just walk away, because my ideals didn’t match up with the ideals of the community that I was with at the time. So, there’s a grieving process, yes, and once you heal you come back to yourself and then you have the ability to go out and make new community. But, there is a grieving process there, and a healing process, and it is different for everyone. So, if you do lose your community, don’t be afraid to take the walk through the process to heal from what you just lost, so you can go make more friends and more community. Because, it’s really important to honor yourself in doing so.

Asher: Thank you so much for sharing that, Ash! That’s very, very encouraging and I totally agree with continuing to still just being open to finding new friends and finding another community even after if you lose your other community.��

Ash: Yeah, like when I used to drink and party, I had heaps of friends and this and that, and I had lot of friends here, friends there everywhere I went; friends, friends, friends. But, once I stopped drinking and I stopped getting high and doing the things that I was doing. Those people didn’t wanna be my friends anymore. That kind of made me sad because I certainly didn’t judge them for what they were doing. But, it was just a fork in the road for me. I had to heal from the fact that those folks couldn’t be in my life anymore and I couldn’t be in theirs. But, I had enough dignity and self-respect for myself to know that, I’m gonna allow myself to feel these feelings, which kind of suck, but then, on the other side, I’m going to continue on with my life and I’m gonna make new community wherever I go.

Asher: For sure.��

Closing Thoughts, How to Reach the Podcast, and Final Credits

Asher: And, for those of us, who are listening in, if you ever need community and you wanna reach out to us, go on and look for us on Let’s Talk Podcast collective or even reach out to us through the Panther Hub. Also, Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective. Thank you so much, Ash, for speaking to me on all these different topics and I’m sure we’ll look forward to our next episode together to talk about more topics. As far as, how to help others with disabilities during these trying times. Thank you so much!

Ash: Thank you so much for having me, Asher. It’s always a pleasure to come on the podcast and be a part of this community and I’ll have Asher post my public email at the bottom. So, if anyone wants to reach out, you can totally email me and I will respond. Thanks so much and have a great day, wherever you may be.

Asher: Thank you so much.

Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk Podcast collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Assessable Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC multimedia department.

We air new episodes on our home website. Our Spotify Channel,, and .

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Miri, Asher, and Julie

Preamble

Miri: In Spring 2025, ˿����Ƶ announced that it was running an internal evaluation of its programs. Three of them — Russian, Gerontology, and Music and Sonic Arts — did not meet the school’s expectations, and were intended to be cut. This announcement garnered both surprise and outrage from the student body and the local community alike. Since then, there has been a grassroots movement led by some Music and Sonic Arts students to bring awareness to their program, and gather support from the community in opposition of the program being shuttered. With signs pointing toward the ultimate fate of the program being on the docket of an upcoming PCC Town Hall, I reached out to talk to a few of these student leaders.��

Guest Introductions

Miri: Okay, so I’ll ask everyone to introduce themself and we’ll just go clockwise.��

Harper: Alright. I’m Harper Treadway. I’m been part of the MSA program since winter of last year.��

Liam: My name is Liam Grouell. I’ve also been a part of the music program since winter of last year. It’s my second year here, term two. I’m hoping to transfer to PSU next year, so.��

Miri: Congrats!��

Alena: My name’s Alena. I use she/her pronouns. I started at Music and Sonic Arts way back in Winter 2023, so I’ve been here since then.��

Max: My name is Max he/him pronouns. I am an audio visual artist studying creative coding in the Music and Sonic Arts program here at PCC. And this is also my second year. And yeah, we’re here to talk about the program and all the things that are happening at PCC right now. So, yeah.��

Miri: Which there’s only a, a few of, you know, only a, maybe two —

Max: Just a few minor things. Only a couple things��

Miri: — at most.��

Max: Three worth noting. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: A hundred things.

Max: �龱�����.��

Getting to know the contestants

Miri: Um, so you two are pretty close to finishing the program then, right?��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Gonna be, is this your last capstone coming up next term?��

Alena: �۱��.��

Max: �۱��.��

Miri: Nice. Um, do you know what you guys are doing yet?��

Max: No. No idea. I would love to incorporate something with surround sound. I have some tracks that I’ve worked on in Ableton that I’d love to just like completely pan apart and split and gut, and strip down and spread across a room somehow and do some cool stuff with that. But, other than that, the capstone is still, yeah, it’s still pretty up in the air. Yeah. But, um, I’m sure we will come up with some pretty fun stuff.��

Alena: I have like this idea of incorporating dancers and having some type of, like, tracking function where like they follow the hands and feet and the head and the middle of people’s bodies, and then we have sounds that happen with each movement of those. I think it’d be really fun to have that incorporated into it. I also have no idea how to do it.��

Alena: And I’m excited to learn and see if I do have an opportunity to learn how to do that.��

Miri: Oh yeah. I mean, there’s a, definitely a P5 library for that. I’ve, uh, used that a couple times. And this is gonna be your guys’ first, capstone this year?

Liam: Uh…��

Harper: Be honest. I don’t know what a capstone is.��

Miri: Fair enough. Yeah. It’s, it’s the, it’s the piece of an arch or a doorway that goes in the very top and keeps the whole thing pressurized downward. Um, which�� —

Max: We’re talking about like a literal capstone��

Miri: Oh yeah. Wait, what did, what did you think I was talking? Uh, yeah, it’s, it, it is a. the culmination of everything you’ve learned so far. Like sometimes it’s at the end of each year, like in this program, sometimes it’s the end of your whole schooling, like, for a lot of film schools.

Liam: It’s like an event.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Liam: Yeah.

Alena: It’s the event that happens every spring over at the Paragon, where they invite Music and Sonic Arts students and creative coding students to get their own separate thing going. And then they have a project that they show in spring over there where people can come and check it out.

Harper: �Ҵdzٳ���.��

Miri: And it’s always super cool. I remember, I always go obviously as an alum of that program, but it’s always some super cool stuff. I went, uh, before I started the program when I was just thinking about it the first time and there was this real time rendered spaceship thing where you could go into warp drive by pushing an actual giant physical Oh, sweet. Like, lever all the way forward, and it would go and the lights would speed up.��

Max: Oh, that’s awesome.��

Miri: It was super cool. I just remember that. That’s really sweet. That one thing, like most specifically. Yeah. And having worked on two of ’em, that’s still the thing I remember most, which is from when I was not there.

Liam: Jessie, last term was showing us some videos of like, the previous capstones. It looked really cool. Like all these different sort of interactive installations.��

Max: Well, what’s cool is like, you’re, you’re a guitarist, right?��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: You’re a musician. I mean, we can incorporate — with the creative coding stuff — live music into our installations, so it’d be cool to work with musicians in the MSA program to do stuff like that. Yeah. Like, I know Renee plays a lot of instruments,��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: It’d be cool to have her come in and, and maybe play for us or something.

Miri: I mean, it’s a program that gives everyone the opportunity to mix doing live music with performance art, with, you know, machine learning programming.��

Max: �龱�����.��

Miri: All done on your laptop.��

Max: Literally. It’s mind blowing. It’s — it’s truly magic. It’s fun and exciting.��

Miri: So what brought each of you into this program specifically?

Harper: Well, I was originally gonna do computer science in college, because I was in the mindset of, “Oh, I need to do something that’s a little more stable.” And then I realized the computer science industry is not stable and that I don’t really want to do computer science, so I just did music. ‘Cause I’ve already been working on music for around five years now, or I guess six years actually since it’s 2026, which feels weird to say honestly. But, um, yeah, I don’t know. I just did the program ’cause I wanted more formal training, I guess, in like, compositional techniques and stuff. And just developing my skills.��

Miri: And now you get a little bit of bonus computer technology.��

Harper: Yeah. I mean, now I’m, I’m taking like audio programming and uh I wanna take like microcontrollers and stuff. It’s really cool.��

Miri: And what about you?��

Liam: So for me, all throughout, later in middle school and high school, I’ve been doing all sorts of music and just being, self-taught and just fiddling around. And, my si — older sister Carissa actually went through this entire program, she’s now graduated from PSU, and it really inspired me to do this program. Usually music was just kind of a hobby, but I decided to fully commit to it, and yeah, I joined this program because it was just a really good option. And it was close to home, it wasn’t terribly expensive. That was mainly the major thing was the — was the expenses, but, you know, Chris had told me that, you know, this is a really good way to connect with people. Really cool community, really diverse community. So yeah, that, that’s, you know, why I joined the program. You know, it’s been great so far. I’ve gotten to meet a lot of really cool people, this class has been great. All of our professors are great — shout out Sarah — uh…

Alena: Sarah!

Miri: Everyone loves Sarah.��

Liam: Yeah. Everyone loves Sarah. Our president, our leader.��

Harper: Sarah G Gaskins.��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Harper: Our��

Max: leader.��

Liam: Our leader,��

Max: yes.��

Liam: Um,��

Miri: Putting the G in O.G.��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Stands for Gaskins.

Liam: Yes. Yeah. Uh. But yeah, uh, that’s my, that’s why I joined the program.��

Miri: What about you?��

Alena: Um, for me, I had just a wild time in my K-8 and my high school education. I was a COVID class, but I also really struggled with your typical format of education. I dropped out of high school freshman year, and then just refused to do any sort of other education besides that. And then during that time when I dropped out, I got really into producing music and just learning all about the industry. I grew up as a pianist. My parents forced me to do lessons, pick an instrument and do it for K through eighth. So I actually really hated music for most of my childhood. But then after eighth grade and going into high school, I was like, “Woah, I actually really like piano.” And then I was like, “Whoa. I actually were like recording myself playing piano,” and then I was like, “Oh, I can manipulate like the recordings of me playing piano.” And then I was like, there’s a whole thing called a DAW where you can manipulate audio and it blew my mind. And I, I personally, like, as a human being with ADHD, just could not focus on anything else except that. So that was part of my choice to drop outta school. And then I basically just got a high school diploma because I was the COVID class and they were giving it to everyone. So as hard as that year was, I was also really grateful that I was just given a diploma regardless. That being said, I realized then that maybe if there was a school that was all about manipulating audio and learning about audio, that I could be interested and get behind that. I’m originally from Seattle and I really wanted to no longer live in Seattle, just to some negative experiences over there. So I decided that Portland was close enough for me to still feel far away, but also have access to home if I need it. And then I saw this program and it was all over from there. I absolutely, I thought I was just gonna do it part-time at first. And then within my first term I was like, I want to do nothing but full-time. I wanna take as many classes as I can and I want to learn it all. And I since then have had many fun different career opportunities, and I think all of ’em are because of the foundation and the confidence this program has given me.��

Liam: I think networking is one of the big things that’s not really talked about when it comes to the music program.

Cause then on top of the education and the access to resources, there’s also a really good networking.��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Liam: Yeah. Um, and I’ve, you know, with, with Mac for example, he was able to use, by the way, just to give some context: Mac — our friend/ classmate Mac — is working on a program that’s really cool. And for beta testing, he literally just talked to everyone in class. He was able to get a whole bunch of people just, you know, to actually use it. You know, real musicians, you can give feedback directly to him. So that’s a good example of like where the program really does stand out for people.��

Harper: Absolutely.��

Miri: And networking is important in this, in any art field.��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: But especially in music, because you don’t get a degree and then apply for jobs in music.��

Liam: No, no. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: You’re gonna��

Liam: You know someone who knows someone who knows someone.��

Miri: Yeah. So how did you get in this program?��

Max: Yeah. So, I was studying for a year at Western Washington University in Bellingham. I really wanted to get into their production program, but I didn’t really have the confidence to like, get myself to take the classes I wanted to. I also had to take a lot of pre-reqs to get into those classes, so I couldn’t start the program immediately. I got really discouraged really fast and I decided, I’m gonna come home, I’m gonna move back to Portland and get my footing and go to PCC and see what they have to offer. And I ended up here and I’m now like a year into the program and I’m absolutely thriving. And I’m finding myself making, lasting friendships, and networking and finding other creative artists who I wanna work with. Alena and I are working on some projects right now with, other artists in the community. It’s been really great and the teachers here are awesome and super supportive and give you everything that you need to succeed and more. The resources here are unlike any other institution I’ve, been at or heard of. I know that the creative coding program here specifically is unlike any other program in the nation. And, uh, yeah, for a long time I’ve, really wanted to, accelerate my knowledge in music theory and production. And this program has definitely given me the confidence to do so. Now here I am.��

Miri: So would you have have come back to PCC were it not for this program?��

Max: No, absolutely not. Yeah. Um, I would’ve, I would’ve, uh, searched elsewhere for something similar But, I found myself in the right place at the right time and, luckily this program wasn’t closed before I got here. Um, you know, so I’m, I’m actually part of the last cohort, I think you guys are too. I think we’re all the last cohort.��

Liam: Yeah, we’re all the last cohort that was allowed through.��

Max: Right. Yeah. So, after us, nobody can join the program and complete it, so. As of right now.��

Miri: Yeah. What about you? Is this the reason that you came to PCC, or this program, this kind of experience?��

Alena: Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I had looked at other kind of traditional music programs where it was like performance and classical and I just could care less about those since I had so much of that as a child. Wanted to separate myself from that. And I was also just so interested in specifically all the ins and outs of what goes behind recording audio. Like it just fascinated me. I never really saw myself as a college student until I started coming here. so PSU was not an option because, you know, it’s a large financial commitment. And also I didn’t, at that point I was like, “There’s no way I’m gonna go to PCC and an actually graduate with a degree.” Like, that was my mindset when I started, was just kind of get myself settled into Portland and find a community.��

Max: �龱�����.��

Alena: It wasn’t with the intent of ever graduating and immediately I just, it’s just sparks, I was just like, I actually do wanna be a college student and I actually do wanna get a degree.

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Alena: And I actually am ready to fully commit to that. So definitely what this program has to offer, and the uniqueness of it, is a hundred percent what drew me in.��

Max: Yeah. Pretty much same.��

Harper: I mean, it’s, there’s not really like any other programs like this, in the country, even. I mean, I, it just music performance overall, like obviously it’s still a good program to do for some people, but like this kind of program moving forward into the digital future that we’re moving towards, like these kind of skills are so much more applicable to just anything in the art field, you know? Compared to, compared to something like taking like classical music performance, then like playing in an orchestra, like that’s awesome still, but, you know.��

Max: The window for that type of career is a lot smaller,��

Harper: Right, yeah.��

Max: Uh, and, and more competitive than the window for the careers that are available through this program. And I think what’s really, beautiful about this program is, how accessible it is for beginners, and the level of experience that you gain from highly experienced professors at such a high accessibility, right? Like, I mean, you don’t have to pay an out-of-state tuition to get this experience, and be in a huge lecture hall where you don’t get any one-on-one interaction with a professor, like, at all. Learning about, you know, maybe similar things, but, here you’re not on your own. We are a very tight-knit community, like in our classes, we, you know, are talking to each other all the time about things outside of class, like how life is going and the outside world and, so on and so forth. And we talk about what’s going on right now in our program all the time. We talk about how our program’s getting cut, we talk about these things in our classes. We have a very unique community here. And I think that this mix of, like, highly experienced professors, along with a really intimate learning environment, gives way to this really unique path. to success in the digital creative world.��

Miri: Absolutely.��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Liam: I’ve seen a lot of people, like, I remember my first term here, Theory 1 was my very first class, and there’s people in there that said like, “I have no experience with instruments or anything like that. I’m just, I just, I’m interested and I wanna learn.” And then this year I’m taking, you know, a theory four class with the same people we’re all talking about, complex theory.��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Liam: Like a different idea is like, what if we use this chord with this chord Totally. And then transition with the five seventh grade. Like, I think that’s just, that’s just incredible��

Max: right?

Liam: That over the course of four terms, these people that have little to no experience with music can be just as informed on intense theory is people who have been doing music since they were five,��

Miri: Yeah, definitely. And you know, you’re a metal musician��

Liam: �۱��.��

Miri: And not a lot of opportunities to study that.��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Unfortunately.��

Liam: Yeah. There’s no screaming classes, unfortunately,��

Miri: Dude, there totally should be Even if there was like an expanded vocal techniques class, sort of like, you know, week one death metal growl, week two, black metal growl, week three, screamo.

Liam: Yeah. And then we get the gutturals.��

Miri: And I think they should just use the, really echoey stairwell over in the, um, yeah. Where it just bounces off all the, all the concrete everywhere. It’s the coolest sounding building.��

Liam: Oh, imagine many like a death metal choir, like an or rock. Wow. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Um, but, uh, I know a lot of people come to this program because they don’t want to play live music as their career. People come here are like, I played piano and that was kind of annoying. And then I realized that recording piano and messing with it in post-production is actually super awesome. So I want to study that, and turn that into something.

Liam: Something that I’ve noticed is like what Harper was saying you know, you can go into like a program focused on playing in orchestras, playing live music, where the program here at PCC, it’s like, “Here’s all the resources, here’s every aspect of the music, here’s the theory, here’s the recording studio, here’s the music in combination with coding.” And all these different things, and it’s splayed out in a way that you can apply those things to a lot of other topics. You can focus on the rhythm or the theory and stuff like that and you can go into music or you could take the coding somewhere and work at a game studio.��

Miri: That’s what I want to do, I came into this ’cause I wanted to do game sound.��

Liam: Yeah. Composing for games is like a partial dream of mine. Composing soundtracks.��

Max: Sound design. I agree. Sound design. Sound design in general is so fun.��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Yeah. ’cause a lot of other places where you can study audio production. It is either just for film, which is most of what I studied over in Chicago, and learning how to record other people’s music! And, you know, like, oh yeah, you’re gonna be a: your job is Producer. You have people come in and hire you, and they record their songs, then you make it sound good, and then you send ’em back home. And that is kind of an outdated way to do a lot of music production. Like, that’s how some big bands do it. Or if there’s a studio that you really like, you’re gonna go in there, but a lot of the time you’re gonna go in with a fully prepared, mixed, mastered demo that you recorded yourself on your couch, or you went over to your friend’s house because they have the, you know, $5,000 PC and, uh, can actually record without latency. And then, you know, that is the guy who’s making a couple hundred bucks at a time maybe. But also recording their own music and putting it out there as just a way of expression as much as a way of trying to source income. This being a program that teaches Ableton or MAX, all the things that are the musician side of the producer side of the whole industry, is super valuable compared to, I mean, not to knock pro tools, but it is the worst program ever invented by man.��

Harper: Hard agree.��

Miri: Awful. It’s,��

Max: it’s archaic. It, it really is.��

Miri: You’re like, wow. This was designed in 1989.��

Max: Yeah, right.��

Miri: Good job! Did you, have you like, updated it since then? No? Interesting!��

Max: And it’s, it’s really interesting that they’re trying to strip us of programs that will give the community technology literacy, software literacy, whatever, like those things are incredibly, increasingly important, becoming increasingly important. Especially for musicians, a lot of the new ways of production, like you said, are completely digital. It’s like, oh yeah, dude, like, send me those samples that you made. I’ll chop ’em up and make ’em into something else.��

Harper: I mean like, like bedroom pop, hyper pop.��

Max: Totally. �۱𲹳�.��

Harper: Those genres are completely defined by being digital format.��

Max: Absolutely. Super independent, creative.��

Miri: Often in non-traditional DAWs��

Max: Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And so a lot of these skills are taught here. A lot of these skills are very accessible at PCC through this program. We have access to, so much technology and so many resources, it’s a shame that that’s being overlooked. �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: So you’ve been kind of taking a leadership role in this, uh, this. Revolution is not quite an accurate term, but��

Alena: I would say so. I would absolutely say so, because this is never, specifically what’s going on and the pushback from both directions has never happened in the history of PCC. So I do see it as a ˿����Ƶ revolution without a doubt. And I don’t, I don’t think there’s any other word for it. The year it was announced that the program was closed, I took a little gap year break because, my boyfriend wanted to go to nursing school. So I was in Kansas when they announced the program closure and it helped make my time feel miserable. Prior to the program closure, I had been participating in music club and being a leader in music club, with some of past students who’ve done it, and through leading music club, I just realized how not only the program and the education I receive here and how important it’s to me, it also got me really connected with students and leading and organizing music students. And that began to be really special to me. So then when I was in Kansas and I started getting these emails about the program closure, a lot of panic set in that, one: I couldn’t be there, but two: I think that really fueled my fire, then, to as soon as I get here, to help get business rolling, and to be there for my student community. I’ve always really enjoyed leadership positions. that being said, also, like this program truly means the world to me. And to see it be threatened, um,��

Miri: activates that instinct,��

Alena: activates my mom a bear instinct though. Please get your hands off my program.

Alena: Um, so I have not a single problem leading. And in fact, it helps, soothe my mama bear being able to be in control and help motivate students to also take charge and speak up for their program.��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: So what was the town hall like last week?��

Alena: It started off with a rally. We had faculty and we had community members and students, and it was powerful. The amount of people that showed up to rally prior, before the board meeting, I think spoke volumes to how much this impacts not only the students, but the community as a whole. It felt good to make our presence known and to let them know that we’re not gonna let up, and that this is going to continue and it’s not gonna stop anytime soon. Then, during the board meeting, a lot of my classmates spoke like Max.��

Alena: I’m very proud of everyone who spoke and I felt like we all communicated our thoughts and feelings. I particularly in the past, have felt intimidated by the board members, but I’m really starting to refresh myself of they’re just people. And I wanted to come at them with the angle of, “I’m just a person too,” and just to get grounded. And that felt nice. The board meeting, and specifically the part that didn’t feel great, was after public comment. Tiffani Penson, the chair of the board, wanted to make a comment to the public speakers, for non agenda items, work for Music and Sonic Arts, and she addressed us with a phrase of,

Tiffani Penson: So listen, I can talk to you or you can leave. It’s one or the other. So, so what I do wanna tell you is that I know it’s hard and sometimes we have to do things that are hard, but I am just saying we appreciate all. I’ve seen all of your emails and I’ve asked you guys, if there’s information that you have that we are missing, to forward it to the administration and forward it to myself, and I’ve never received anything. So again, I do thank you. I thank you for your, um, compassion. I thank you for your commitment, but this will be the last conversation around this. [Crowd Noise].

Alena: You can’t really hear it in the audio that is included but the room immediately broke into frustration. You can hear bits and pieces of that in the background. There were some things that were not only unprofessional, but that were hurtful and directed to the Sonic Arts program. So that did leave a lot of students feeling flustered, but I think it also left a lot of us feeling that fighting back is the right thing to do and that there is a reason why we need to fight. And she gave us a reason to fight.��

Miri: Reinvigorated.��

Alena: �۱��.��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Alena: We then utilize what we have control of, which is we can do chalk on campus at Sylvania, at the specific areas we’re given, and we can also do chalk all around public ground. So then that was a great way to go out and do that. I ended up that night going to every single campus and writing about the Save MSA website on every single campus. And I hope that students go and check it out, . And that will have all of our facts and then some actions that the public can do to help support the program. So I think it, yeah, it, reinvigorated is just a great word to describe. As difficult as it was, I think, a big push came from that.��

Miri: Yeah. I know a lot of people both students of this program and, employees and students at large in PCC felt like there had been a shocking lack of transparency and,��

Liam: oh, yes. �۱��.��

Miri: Um, like explanation of decisions or even just that decisions haven’t been made.

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: For a lot of things. So what do you guys think about that, and how should they communicate the ideas behind decisions that are made?��

Max: Yeah. Um, well, as of right now, there’s really no foundational trust between students and administration. Um, there’s no foundational trust between the public and administration. The trust isn’t there between the faculty and the administration. Their intentions are vague, and often kind of behind a curtain. And a lot of their decisions to cut this program have been based on false data. So, you know, these cuts feel targeted in a way. Um, they do feel very intentional and it doesn’t make sense. This is a big program with high enrollment and high graduation rates. You know, there are a lot of part-time faculty here that are on payroll that, if were to be gone, would probably save the school some money. So it does feel a little targeted. At the heart of this really, there’s a lot of emotion and we’re all really embarrassed by this. The community’s embarrassed. Faculty are embarrassed. Alena and I spent a lot of time, between classes writing chalk, writing messages and chalk around campus. Just , save Music and Sonic Arts. And uh, actually the maintenance team was hastily ordered to scrub it clean the next day, and they were embarrassed as well. Uh, we talked to them directly and they were all, uh, quite embarrassed to be ordered to do something that went against their good nature is good people. ’cause, you know, getting an order from the top, when you’re at the bottom to do something like that to other people who are also at the bottom. Is, uh, quite demoralizing as a person, just as a human, you know, so. Having to watch that too, as just another person, sucked, you know?

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: Seeing these guys that were just like, “Yeah, I’m, I’m off in like an hour and I have to do this for the rest of that time.”

Alena: Just the act of trying to spray chalk in support of the music program and being told specifically, we clarified with them it was not just on school grounds. It was anywhere including public grounds where there was chalk in support of our program to spray it,��

Miri: Which I noticed coming in today, that a lot of it had been redrawn over.��

Alena: �۱��.��

Miri: And clearly removed in some more forceful way than had been expected, especially because it was on the sidewalk and other things that I didn’t know that PCC was in charge of cleaning.��

Alena: Yeah, they’re not. Um, so we have, we, I, I have looked through the laws of Portland chalking, and educated myself on the school policies and where our boundaries lie. Like we are an urban campus, therefore there is an aspect of public accessibility that happens when you have an urban campus. So the fact that they were going beyond what the school is in charge of to try and silence students, I think speaks volume to this being a targeted attack.��

Liam: Yeah. Even one of the security officers walking around, he was telling us that he talked to when he was out observing the chalk, and he said openly to the security officer that he thinks that some degrees are more valuable than others,��

Max: That’s right.��

Liam: And that art isn’t valuable at all.

Max: �龱�����.��

Liam: Especially the art degree or, and just any art. So,��

Max: So basically just to make this clear, the head believes that, uh, the arts and music are not valuable in society, and therefore are not worthy of funding from the school. From the school. �۱𲹳�.��

Liam: Yeah. You have that. Correct.��

Alena: And therefore any pushback should be silenced��

Max: �۱��.��

Alena: Via power washing chalk.��

Max: Yes. �龱�����.��

Liam: �۱��.��

Max: And, yeah. All of the school security officers that we talked to also thought it was nonsense that they wanted to scrub the chalk, or that they want to cut our program in general. So they’re all on our side. It’s crazy. It’s like, how could you not support our program? It’s like we’re a bottom up grassroots movement. We are in the community working with the community to make the community better. Cause they’re trying to take our community away.��

Liam: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: Like from the top, that’s what is happening, and we can’t avoid it any longer. We can’t dance around it. You know?

Liam: I’ve talked to strangers at concerts, like, on like, you know, an underground punk show and you, they’re like, “Hey, my best friend’s at the PCC program.” Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, you know, you know, just meeting other people and, you know. Totally. It’s, it’s a lot bigger than people think. It’s a lot more ingrained in Portland than people think.��

Max: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.��

Miri: This show is broadcast on, on KBOO the third Friday of every month, so. You know. Shout out to us, I guess. Um, but, you know, it’s a completely volunteer organization, and every time that I go in regarding this topic, the people there are like, “Oh yeah, I studied at that program”, or “Oh yeah, you know, our, our, our sound guy right now he’s from that program.” That kind of thing. So it is just completely coincidentally, constantly encountered out in the wild in my job, which isn’t even music based anymore. You know, this is a, a volunteer radio station that just is two thirds people who have gone through this program.��

Max: And that really just highlights like how deeply embedded into this community this program is and this school is. I mean, there are four different campuses. Four or five different campuses around four, four different campuses in each corner of the city.��

Miri: And the CLIMB Center,��

Max: Uh, yeah. Sorry, sorry, my bad.��

Alena: Also the, uh, one in Beaverton, Mill Creek.��

Miri: Right!��

Alena: Mill Creek. And they got chalk too! I chalked their campus.��

Miri: I remember Mill Creek. My wife taught there for a little while, so��

Harper: Yeah, I remember, I remember when they were still pretending that it was because there weren’t enough careers coming outta this program.

Max: Oh my God.��

Harper: Uh, Ben Tyler, it was like last year I was taking one of Ben’s classes and I remember he gave us a story about how he went and played the band for like a Ted Talk, whatever. And he said that he literally saw one of his students running sound for the event. And I’m like, if that’s not the greatest example of this thing creates careers, this program creates opportunities for people.

Max: Well, there’s a,��

Harper: oh my god,��

Max: there’s a projected like what, 20,000 jobs in the state of Oregon for audio?

Alena: �۱��.��

Max: Engineering, live audio, live sound.��

Alena: Yeah. Specifically also, I would like to speak to like my own career encounters. So I, when I started school, one of the jobs I picked up to support myself at PCC was teaching something called EMC. It’s a local Portland group, we teach at afterschool clubs at Portland Public Schools, and we teach Ableton to kids. That alone is like my why of like, why I’m ready to fight because every year I like to introduce myself to kids as a student before I’m a teacher and let them know that I’m also a music student and I’m also studying Ableton and music production. And every year I get a kid who says something like, “Maybe I’ll go to school with you one day, miss Alena!” And every year, except this year, I’ve been like, “Yes, heck yes! Like, maybe I get to teach you!” I would honestly love to teach at PCC and specifically teach some licensing or music business, which is a class that they’ve shut down in the past, that I would love to bring up once I graduate. That being said, this year it breaks my heart because the schools also I’ve taught at so far this term have been SUN schools, which are publicly funded schools for low income families. These are the students who need a community college. These are the students who will not afford PSU, and these are the students who do not see themself in any other college except something that’s accessible and that is their interest. These are students who have been using GarageBand since they were five, and these are students who are going to stay fascinated, and I can see the passion from day one, and it’s not gonna go anywhere. And it needs to be able to go somewhere in order to support them in a career when they’re older. That alone there is one of my whys of why I’m fighting and why I’m pushing back is for those students who are going to rely on having the accessibility to a program like this. I’ve also worked for Marmoset, the large commercial licensing company in Portland. They’re all over what’s going on, and they are without a doubt in support of saving the program. They’ve hired many, many, many, many, many students from here, and just that company alone has brought in multi-millions of dollars into Portland and Portland musicians. I also, currently, right now I’m in an internship at a publishing company, the only publishing company in Portland called Radio Tower Music Group. They have actually come to the board meetings. They didn’t come to the most recent one, but they came to the last one. They’ve also all sent emails to the board members, and they’re just baffled w’all that’s happening. Also one of our people from Radio Tower and who is helping mentor me, he started a company with one of his friends called Crystal Creative, which is another music licensing company. They just did the Superman trailer. They, they, like, they, they, they also bring in multimillions of dollars for Portland and local musicians. And I think it’s an absolute lie that there’s no jobs and no money for people in sound and audio and music.

Liam: Yes, thank you. I have to go, everyone.

Miri: And thank you for joining us.��

Alena: Thank you, Liam.��

Liam: !

Max: I think the hardest part about watching these cuts unfold is how we are losing as artists, the connection to the outer communities, and losing the trust of the outer communities. This city is run by artists and musicians, and it’s what keeps this city alive. And without these super niche programs and pathways to niche career opportunities, we wouldn’t have as diverse of a creative spectrum, I guess. Sorry. I’m trying to, trying to articulate, uh, my thoughts better.

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: We don’t, you can cut this if you want.��

Miri: No, I think that’s an important point that, that, you know, that creative culture and environment of Portland is objectively heavily influenced by what the people in this program have done.��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: Whether the teachers or the graduates or the current students, everyone who’s gone through this program has made something that nobody else would ever have been able to make because it was them in this program.

Max: Right. It’s, uh, yeah, it’s, um, it’s definitely. Kind of a tragedy, you know? And, uh, that’s why we’re fighting.��

Miri: So what kind of transparency would you want from the school? So, this most recent winter break, the college was completely closed. Employees were not allowed to do work during the break period, which has not happened before in the entire time that PCC has existed. Four and a half straight weeks of nothing. Advisors weren’t allowed to reach out, a lot of lower level admin stuff was shut down, like the accessibility offices and all the resource offices. And the thing that has been frustrating, a lot of people in my department is, nobody knows why. Because everyone asks. You know, my boss asks, my boss’s boss asks, and they just don’t tell us. Which is so much worse than being like, “Well, ’cause we save, you know, $250,000.”

Alena: �龱�����.��

Miri: Because if they told us that, then we’d be like, “I mean, that sucks, but fair.” But not telling us is like, It makes people feel like children. Like we’re being treated like, treated like children who are being treated badly.��

Max: Well, it also means that like they expect us and they expect the faculty to bend to whatever will that they have in that sense. So like, if they want to shut down the school and not pay their employees for a month, that’s, uh, something that they, they’re just gonna have to deal with. Like, it’s, it’s like you said, it’s like a child. It’s like a parent child relationship, and it’s not, it’s not fair. It’s also not fair as students to not have access to our resources for a month.��

Miri: Exactly.��

Max: If I am working on a project that I’m preparing for the next term, if I wanna get ahead of myself and like start preparing a project for like, Creative Coding 2, because I’m carrying my, project from creative coding one into the next term, into my next class, and I need help from my teacher, they’re not supposed to talk to me or like, I can’t email them and they won’t respond. Or if I can’t, like, get in touch with, uh, my advisor or whatever.��

Miri: Or if you’re a student with a mobility impairment or a learning impairment or anything,��

Max: Totally.��

Miri: Trying to reach out to someone, being like, “Hey, is this a class that I can physically take?”��

Max: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: And then if it’s just gonna be silence for two weeks, then you know, that could either be a few hundred dollars wasted or just a bunch of undue stress of not knowing. What kinds of transparency do you want? If they come out tomorrow and say, “Stop talking. We are shutting down the program no matter what, and this is why”. What would you want to hear from them if that is their decision instead of just ghost?��

Alena: Yeah, that’s a great question. The respect I think we’re looking for is regarding specifically the facts for our program closure. A lot of the different points and facts and data that was gathered originally from our program closure, we’ve all proven they’re false. If you wanna look deeper into them, you can look on . But to speak to some of them specifically, some of the claims were that we had a low graduation rate. Since 2023 ‘ the MSA program has a 27.5% graduation rate. The average PCC graduation rate is 18%. We’re significantly higher than the average graduation rate at PCC, so we know that to be false. There was a lot of claims about specifically for the graduation rate, we know we looked into the data that the administration did originally supply us, and it was including all students who originally signed up for the MSA degree. But there is a large number of students who signed up for the MSA degree and who did not actually start a single class. They included that in the, the statistic, which then is going to give us incorrect data. In order to feel respected as a student, I would like to have data of students who are actually participating in the class. I feel like that would give more valid data to actually what’s going on.��

Alena: They’ve also claimed that there’s not enough students, we have empty classrooms. There’s 137 full-time students right now in our program. That’s also significantly more than other programs. So, once again, does it make sense that the claims that they’re making? Lastly, one of the claims that they’re making is that CTE programs are required to have a direct correlation with specific careers or job opportunities. That is nowhere. We, we’ve searched the PCC CTE requirements on the actual website of PCC.��

Miri: And CTE means what, sorry?��

Max: Career technical education.��

Alena: Yes. Um, there’s 40 other programs that are considered CTE programs at PCC. None of them have like a specific job that you’re gonna get lined up and go to, so for administration to make a claim that: Music and Sonic Arts lacks that, therefore we should be shut down, I think is an absolutely ridiculous claim. So if they were to say, “Hey, this is why we’re closing the program,” I think I would like them to exclude the CTE point because we’ve proven it’s false, we all know it’s false, and then I would like to see actual data that is from students who engage in the program. And also just to like, come to our school and see what we do, and then make a choice after actually seeing with their own eyes of what’s going on. That’s, that’s the way that I would feel respected.

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Harper: They, they treat our program like, it’s like a high school administration where they would actually have the, the power to just do whatever they want, but then they forget that we are all adults that go here, who can do things.��

Miri: And pay for it.��

Harper: And pay for it. So. I mean, I literally, my high school, I went to a high school up in Canvas and literally almost the same thing happened to my high school. Not closure of the high school, but like $6 million in budget cuts which were discussed. And the entire school protested. And unfortunately it just went through because there just wasn’t enough support against that large of budget cuts. But like, it was just a lack of respect for the program because like other schools in the area, our school was like a relatively newer school, and more modern, I would say, due in part to being a pretty recent school, like we got like $6 million in budget cuts compared to the public high school that was, I would say, a more traditional high school that’s existed for longer. Nothing, or at least very much less. It’s just a lack of respect, and that’s exactly what’s happening here. It’s a lack of respect for the program.��

Max: Yeah. It’s tough to see the board be so divided about this, at this point. It’s clear that a lot of the board members are embarrassed that they have to sit there with other members who don’t support the program. For us as students, it’s imperative that we see a direct relationship between us and those who represent us. We want to see them walking our halls. We want to see them stop into our classes and see what we’re learning.��

Miri: Come to the capstone.��

Max: Come to the capstone. We want to see them come to events that we put on, at the school, led by students.��

Harper: It’s like arguing with like a corporation.

Max: Right? No, it does. And that’s, that’s another thing.��

Alena: Can I speak to that really quick? So actually something that Greg, one of the chair members, a comment he made after Tiffani Penson announced, “Hey, the conversation’s closed,” and then Music and Sonic Arts people walked out. And then if you watch, it’s posted on the PCC website, the whole entire board meeting. They then go into actual like policies and procedures and, you know, some of the. the stuff that they’re distracting themselves with, I would call it. And beforehand, most of the people participating in those conversations do make a statement regarding what’s happening. Greg, the chairman�� —it cuts out when it first starts, but he goes into discussing that he went and visited the jazz performance at the fall term. And that he went and saw the choir and talked about how good they are. And I think, some of them want to support, but they just don’t understand that Music and Sonic Arts is completely different from music performance. So I do agree that they should come specifically to our capstone. They should come specifically to Cascade Campus, and see our program and not just generalize us and bunch us in with music.��

Max: Right. I, I absolutely agree. It is clear that the administration wants to run the school like a business, but PCC is not a business. It’s an institution of education for the public, designed for the local communities. For people who either cannot afford to go to a four year state school, or just need a one-off class experience. I, I know PCC used to offer beginner technology classes for like elderly people who didn’t know how to check their email. It’s stuff like that that, like, I know things like that might not be getting cut elsewhere in the school, but, this program in specific is really the future of Portland art. I mean, it is. Especially over here on the east side where we’re surrounded by lower income areas. There’s nothing else like this in the city for these communities.��

Harper: And for a city with such a massive underground scene, in general, and local scene, it’s insane to say that a music program is not good for the, like,��

Max: so much good local music has been recorded on this campus, in the studio here. Local band Gonzalez, Harper and I recorded their recent —��

Harper: That was incredible.��

Max: Yeah. We recorded their recent demo release that just came out in November, and it was kind of incredible. It was one of the coolest things I’ve ever done in my life.��

Harper: First time I’ve ever gotten an opportunity to do something like recording a band like that, and it, it was — If I, if this program didn’t exist, I don’t think I would’ve ever been able to do something like that. You know?��

Max: No, never. And to say that I did that, and to have my name be on the back of their mix tape when it comes out, like, it’s like, “Oh my God, holy Shit” you know? I can keep that for the rest of my life and be proud of that. And that kind of exceeds any sort of superficial career opportunity that I might get, or whatever idea of that that the board has that this program is “clearly missing.” The experiences that I’m getting are also giving me those opportunities, these experiences of recording bands, and learning how to set up interactive, audio visual experiences in a performance setting or a gallery setting. Those are really niche areas of the creative world and the digital creative world right now, but they’re very important and they’re becoming more important. And I think they’re also kind of key to helping us move forward as a society, creatively philosophically too. Integrating these types of things into different parts of our world and daily life is what’s next, I think.��

Harper: And also just creating more accessible means for people to be creative like this. The skills you learn in this program, obviously we mentioned how applicable they are at everything, but also just the fact that this kind of compared to music performance, these kind of skills are much easier for someone who maybe doesn’t have an insane budget to spend on a studio. It’s a lot easier to apply these skills in their life, you know?��

Max: I think that the board probably sees this program is about like live music performance or being a musician, playing guitar, singing, playing piano, singing, It’s so much more than that. And even then, not everybody has the talent or desire or really just the energy or motivation to want to perform live. Because it’s kind of a chore sometimes to perform live. It’s very enjoyable, but I have tried my hand at it. I don’t think it’s for me. I’d rather be behind the scenes, working to put on the production. And there’s so many opportunities for that, career wise.

Miri: Do you all know, Dillon?��

Max: I don’t think so.��

Miri: He is�� — current? Former? Both? — You know, students at PCC tend to have kind of a tenuous relationship with being a full-time student. Because you know you’re full-time for a term and then you’re like, “Oh, I’m outta money, I gotta take a term off.”

Max: His name is Dillon?��

Miri: �۱𲹳�.��

Max: Is he Deaf?��

Miri: �۱��.��

Max: Yeah, yeah, yeah.��

Miri: �۱��.��

Max: He was in my microcontrollers class last year.��

Miri: Yep! He is absolutely insanely brilliant.��

Max: Yeah, he’s super smart��

Miri: And is a Deaf man in a music course.��

Max: Right?��

Miri: Because he is developing machinery and —��

Harper: Literally a modern Beethoven��

Max: Dude, it’s actually, no, it’s actually so cool. I remember what he was doing when we were in microcontrollers. It was this like frequency glove thing that like played a… I can’t put good words to what he did. It’s probably so much better than what I’m saying. I think it allowed him to sense whatever frequency was being played really accurately or whatever, and he could like learn the notes of the frequencies and, and, and such.��

Miri: Yeah. And he has been able to develop multiple software and hardware pieces of technology in this program that facilitate his ability to create music as a Deaf person.��

Harper: Yes! Thank you for putting better words to that.

Miri: I’ve talked with him a few times, so.��

Alena: I loved your interview with him.��

Miri: Oh yay! I’m glad. It was so loud in that room that day. Oh man. Um, but yeah, he, uh, he’s brilliant, and I know is not having a good time with the program being shut down and is being a very vocal, supporter of the program continuing and is a huge advocate for both hearing students and for what this program and the sort of technology developed in this course could mean for not just Deaf people, but other people with disabilities, whether vision loss or mobility impairment, anything, of being able to experience a more well-rounded and rich and colorful environment and life and way of interacting with the world.

Max: It’s incredible. Truly, truly incredible.��

Miri: He is fantastic and would be. Such a shame to drop the ability for people like him to pursue the things that he is pursuing in the way that he’s pursuing them.��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: By shutting down a music technology program that isn’t just focused on music performance.��

Alena: Yeah. In my composition class during fall, we had a guest speaker come in, Molly Joyce. She’s an advocate for accessibility in Music and Sonic Arts. She’s a disabled individual herself, and a lot of her music is about her experience with her disability. But she’s also an absolute modern day pioneer with advocacy and creating tools for disabled individuals to still have access and engage and specifically to express themself through art. Art is a birthright, and I think what Dillon’s doing, as well as Molly, and specifically the tools that this program offer, do give students an opportunity to advocate for that expression and make it accessible.

Miri: �۱��.��

Alena: �۱𲹳�.��

Miri: So what is the next step? What is the next step for both students and for how listeners can get involved in this?��

Alena: So a couple things. For listeners specifically, the small step you can do is check out our website. It’s , one of the instructors from Sonic Arts, Erica made. It shout out to Erica. On this website, you can find links of specifically contacting the board members. Tiffani Penson at the last meeting made a comment that no one has sent her any emails, has shown any data, and she invites us to. So I would like to invite you to utilize some of those. We have all the board members emails, but specifically to send Tiffani the facts that we have documented from the website. You can be as simple as just copying and pasting and then putting it in her name and sending that off. If you’re a music professional, any backing from music professionals in Portland or just anywhere, who can advocate to us and also send an email to the board would be helpful.

Miri: Which I’ve heard you’ve got a lot of support from.��

Alena: Yes, we’ve had hundreds. Hundreds! we’ll keep on doing it. I would love for it to be thousands.��

Miri: Billions, even.��

Max: Would it —

Alena: Yes. We’ll make it undeniable. What were you gonna say, Max?��

Max: No, no, no. I’ll say it after.��

Alena: Okay. Um, then the next couple steps, the two other biggest things I would like to put out there, February 12th at 1:30, we’re gonna have a school wide walkout. It’ll be hosted at Cascade. We’re gonna have free food and drinks and as well as Sonic Art students are gonna perform some live music. February 12th, it’s a Thursday at 1:30 PM. It’s going to be also advertised via chalk at every and all campuses as well as student gov. So there’s the be the walkout. Any and all participation there is gonna be great. We’re gonna have media come out and the thing we want to do is to show a large number of people who are in support because I think taking the angle of specifically digital support, hasn’t been loud enough. So I would like to show physical support and physical volume of being loud. And as well, have it stream on multiple platforms. We have KOIN-6, as well as other medias and journalists coming out who are gonna help document it as well. The other event that is coming up is the February 19th board meeting. We haven’t confirmed yet, but we are still in the works of getting our proposal for our program on their agenda. I’m feeling hopeful about it from the most recent updates that it will get on their proposal. That being said, that’s the meeting that we really want to pack and fill.��

Miri: On February 19th?

Alena: February 19th at Sylvania campus at 7:00 PM. I invite anyone to sign up for public comment. As of right now, we haven’t gotten any news if it’s an agenda or non agenda item, but that will guide you of specifically how you sign up depending on all that. Those are the two big events that are coming up in February that are going to be a necessary part of showing student support. I think they’ve heard a lot about it, but this is going to be the showing of it.��

Miri: And as always, the capstone at the end of the year, which is just always a good experience, you know, whether or not you’re trying to protest anything.��

Alena: Yes, yes.��

Miri: Um, what about, what is next for students, for you guys?

Alena: What’s next for students is I’ve been in contact with student gov. We officially have really started to connect and start to problem solve of, what can they do? What do they feel comfortable doing? What are their plan B’s? What are their plan C’s? I think they have felt, from what I’ve heard, they would like to advocate for students and that they’re feeling sick and tired of what’s happening to students regarding all these budget cuts. So we’re exploring their freedom of expression. And once again, just falling back on, if there’s no rules, then there’s no rule to break, so we might as well just do it. I’m gonna have the student leader Fareeha, she’s coming in tomorrow, into campus on Cascade, and she’s gonna be joining me in class. I’m gonna introduce her to all the students, and just show her around campus, which I’m really excited about. And then they will be coming next week. They would like to make a survey to fill out students and they would like to bring the data of the survey to the Capitol, which will also be going on February 12th. The student gov got invited to go speak at the Capitol, and they’d like to speak about our program being closed.��

Miri: The Capital-Capital! Like in Salem?��

Alena: Salem, yes.��

Miri: That’s impressive!��

Alena: So that our, our No our next, our next steps is to bring. the capital into this. I think, specifically the claim of that Tiffani Penson hasn’t been sent any emails we all know is incorrect. We are also looking into giving a government audited email on her, because she is a public servant, so therefore her emails can be audited, and therefore we can disprove her and hopefully put it on posters for the February 19th board meeting, and of her email inbox and all the facts she has received. So that’s for students. And then it’s just the walkout. I’ve been inviting students via my email list for doing chalk around campus, and just getting loud. Get noisy.��

Miri: Awesome.��

Alena: �۱��.��

Miri: You are doing some absolutely fantastic work.��

Alena: Thank you.��

Miri: And you and all of you should be very proud of yourselves, both for fighting for this and for the work that you do in the class regardless of this. You know, creating music and technology and putting them together and turning something that is the inkling of an idea in your head into something physical there in front of you is just one of the coolest things that a human being can do. It’s the thing that makes us human.��

Harper: Absolutely.��

Miri: As opposed to anything else.��

Harper: �۱��.��

Miri: So, uh, thank you all so much for coming in and talking to me today.��

Alena: And yeah, thank you for giving us the space to speak.��

Miri: Yeah. Oh, always. That’s what, uh —��

Alena: Thank you for continuing the conversation.��

Miri: Yes. That is what we at Let’s Talk! are here for.��

Postamble

Miri: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk! As you heard in this episode, most of the frustration is held against the school’s apparent lack of transparency, and a refusal to, at least seemingly, consider what comes from the voices of others. It’s a tough time for colleges all across the country right now, with pressure from federal budget cuts, active soldier mobilization, and a rising anti-intellectualism all combining to create an incredibly stressful environment for educators. But the solution to that, at least I think, is rather than shut out students, faculty, and the community, to invite them in to be a part of decision-making and mutual support. With a student body of over 50,000, and an alumni body that is truly uncountable, ˿����Ƶ is one of the most powerful, influential, and beloved community colleges in America. This is the time for us to take on that role, embrace that role, and show students and educators across the country that; in these dark times, not only is it possible to survive, but to have our students and our communities thrive. All we need is each other, and it’ll all be okay. Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk.

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective

Introduction to Let’s Talk! at ˿����Ƶ

Asher: Thank you for tuning in to Let’s Talk!, ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability awareness. Let’s Talk is a space for students from ˿����Ƶ experiencing disabilities to discuss perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. We broadcast biweekly on our home website, , and bimonthly right here on KBOO 90.7 FM. Today is the first Friday of the month, so we’re coming to you live from KBOO Studio. As the reminder, the views and opinions expressed during this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of ˿����Ƶ, PCC Foundation, or KBOO FM. My name is Asher, and with me today are Miguel, Michelle, along with our special guest Jen Armbruster, executive director of Adaptive Sports Northwest. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today.��

Jen: Glad to be here.��

Michelle: Hello.��

Miguel: Good morning.��

Asher: Hi.��

Meet Jen Armbruster: Executive Director of Adaptive Sports Northwest

Asher: Well, uh, Jen, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?��

Jen: Sure. Um, I’m the executive director of , which is a nonprofit based out of Portland, Oregon, um, serving around the region. Uh, but we do basically recreational competitive opportunities in about 10 different ongoing sports and recreational activities ranging from wheelchair basketball to goal ball, archery, pickleball, track and field swimming, um, wheelchair rugby, you name it. We kind of have it, and that’s what we do. And we just provide opportunities, equipment, um, programming time, practice space, and coaches and volunteers to help run the programs throughout the year.

Asher: So, cool.��

Jen: That sounds fun.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Adaptive Sports Northwest: Mission and Activities

Asher: Um, what is Adaptive Sports Northwest as an organization and what is its mission?��

Jen: Sure. So our mission is really to serve youth through adults, uh, with physical or visual disabilities, um, and meeting ’em where they’re at. So it might be folks that are wanting to try a sport for the first time, folks that wanna be competitive, even to the Paralympic athlete. Um, so we just are able to offer kind of a, a chance for folks to maybe try some things. As you know, affordability for adaptive equipment can be pretty costly. Mm-hmm. So we have over a hundred pieces of adaptive equipment ranging from hand cycles to sports chairs, tandem bikes, um, the goal ball goals, things like that. Um, that again, if you know a kid maybe trying basketball for the first time, maybe needs a new pair of shoes, that’s a lot different than a, a sports, you know, chair to play wheelchair basketball, that’s gonna cost three or five thousand dollars, right?��

Asher: Yeah, I know it’s expensive.��

Jen: So we, we, yeah, so we’re just providing opportunities for folks to, to, to, to enjoy sport and recreational activities. Um, but like I said, we have a lot of the equipment, we have the practice facilities, things like that for folks to be able to try that and, and recreate. And our biggest thing is really to build community. Um, I get folks that, you know, from a mentoring standpoint too, um, a lot of our adults help with the younger activities and different things. So it’s just providing that opportunity. We also go into schools, um, and provide a school networking program as well for folks to be able to, you know, maybe a kid with a disability in, in their PE class, right? So we are able to provide those options and those equipment for folks to be able to use that, utilize that sports chair, you know, for their basketball unit or their pickleball unit. Um, and we’re always there as well, just to help kind of guide, um, you know, and just think outta the box a little bit on how to make adaptations accessible for kids.��

Asher: That’s very cool.��

Jen: That is really cool.��

Asher: Yeah. I feel like I’m gonna be asking, or we’re also gonna be asking a lot of questions as far as like, terminology for these different equipments.��

Jen: Sure.��

Asher: ’cause,��

Jen: yep.��

Asher: Uh, I’ve never heard of any of these things before. .��

Jen: All good.��

Michelle: Yeah, same.��

Jen: Absolutely.��

Asher: Um, yeah. How did you end up joining them, like? �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So I moved to the Portland area in 2010. Um, took a job at Portland State University as their inclusive rec, person enjoy starting the, at the campus rec, you know, at Portland State University, we’re the first time to hire kind of full-time staff to run that program, get that, you know, kind of in, in line with things. So everything from our rec center to offering actual wheelchair, as a college. So that was kind of what brought me to the, the Portland area. Um, I knew the executive director at the time, Tricia Sewer, through her husband, who was the assistant wheelchair rugby coach for the USA team. Um, I was a Paralympic athlete myself, and so our paths had crossed. So when I moved to Portland, I went, “Hey, you should have a goal ball program.” And they said, okay. Um, they were known mostly for their wheelchair sports, um, kind of going in. So we, you know, my background was kind of on the, the blind, visually impaired side, as well as just other ambulatory sports and wheelchair sports coming from Lake Shore Foundation in Birmingham. So I kinda made my way out here. Um, we were Oregon Disability Sports at the time. and so that’s kind of how I got my start with them. I was a volunteer. Um, I coached, I was an athlete, served on the board for a few years, became the executive director in September of 2022.��

Asher: That is quite the journey.

Jen: Yeah. It’s a little bit of a journey. �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So,��

Jen’s Journey to the Paralympics

Asher: With that, like we heard that you, you were in the Paralympics.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Can you tell us a little bit about your journey in that?��

Jen: Sure. So, I was a kid growing up, um, sighted. So, basketball was what I was supposed to kind of go to college on. That was supposed to be my career path, and things. And I lost my vision. I went legally blind at 14 and went totally blind at 17. But at 14 I was legally blind, I was left with peripheral vision outta my left eye.��

Michelle: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And was still playing competitive basketball and it was right before my freshman year in high school, so still playing competitive basketball. Someone wrote a, a story about me playing competitive basketball, being legally blind, Armbruster is a fairly unique name. And back when phone books existed and someone looked up Armbruster, I was living in Colorado Springs at the time, called me up, said, do you wanna try this sport called goalball? It had ball in it, so me and my family were like, what the heck? Let’s do it! And so went down. Um, I didn’t go to the school for the blind, um, in Colorado, but that’s who had reached out to me and said, do you wanna try the sport? So went down there with my dad on a Saturday afternoon and got introduced to the sport at that point. My father and my mom are both avid coaching, and in different sports. And so he picked up a rule book. Um, we formed a Colorado team that summer and kinda the rest was history. The US coach happened to be at Nationals in 1990 and scouted me, and I was fortunate enough to make the, the 92 team in Barcelona for my first games.��

Miguel: Wow.

Michelle: That is so cool.��

Jen: Yeah. And then I retired after the 2016 game, so it was seven, seven time Paralympian.��

Michelle: That’s so cool. And you said goalball?��

Understanding Goalball

Jen: Goalball.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Michelle: Goalball.��

Asher: Can you explain like what goalball is?��

Michelle: Yeah. What is goalball?��

Asher: What is it?��

Jen: Of course. Um, so goal ball’s played on 9 by 18 meter court. The goals go the length of the back line, so nine meter goal. Um, it’s about 1.3 meters high. The balls about the same circumference as a men’s basketball, but it’s about three pounds of dead weight. So 1.25 kilos to be exact.��

Asher: Whoa.��

Jen: Balls have bells in it. All of our markings have string underneath, thin string, so we can fill it with our feet or our hands. Basically the ball doesn’t have air pressure the way the basketball is. You can skip it, you can bounce it, but it’s, basically it’s gotta make contact before what we call the six meter line or the high ball line, which is the equivalent of where the spike line would be for volleyball for those either visual.

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, it’s gotta make contact at least once before or on that line and once before the other teams. So it’s three on three. Defense is basketball, kind of a basketball goalie. You’re gonna use your body to defend it. And then your throwing motion is more of a, a side arm or underhand, depending on your style or if you wanna spin, but that’s yes, was delivered the low on the ground, fast speed at, uh, the levels at the international levels we’re throwing around 30, 35 miles an hour.��

Michelle: Wow.��

Jen: On the women’s side, about 40, 45 on the guy side.��

Asher: Wow.��

Jen: So less than a second reaction time. And hopefully if one of y’all is doing your job right, somebody’s getting hit. Um, so you’re hitting the floor, the ball’s hitting you. Um, so reverse dodge ball, right. With a much heavier ball. So yeah.��

Asher: Oh…��

Jen: So high speed back and forth. There’s a shot clock involved as well. So you have 10 seconds from first defensive contact to gather, get any passes off and get your shot off and pass half court within 10 seconds.

Asher: So what’s, how does the score work with that if you get hit?��

Jen: it’s great. It’s awesome��

Michelle: 20 points?��

Jen: If get hit. That’s if you did your job.��

Michelle: So that’s a lot of points?��

Jen: Um, so yeah, so it’s like soccer. So you’re, the object is to, to get to the other team’s goal, right?��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So you play on your end three on three.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, and so you’re rolling it down to the other end, throwing it on the other side. And so if you miss it and it crosses that goal line into the net, then it’s gonna be a goal for the other team. So.��

Asher: Oh, wow.��

Michelle: Wow.��

Asher: That’s interesting.��

Jen: Yeah, it’s fun. There’s penalty shots if you get a penalty shot. Or if you get a penalty, you have to defend the whole court by yourself.��

Asher: It’s a penalty shot.

Jen: Yeah. So you have to, yeah. So you have to defend the whole court by yourself. So,��

Asher: Oh!��

Jen: Nine meters, almost 30 feet right? That’s a lot to, lot, lot to cover.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, in less than a second, so.��

Asher: Oh my goodness.��

Miguel: Did you ever have to defend the whole court by yourself?��

Jen: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Penalties happen all the time. ‘Cause again, it’s penalties if you, you know, you don’t get the ball down in time on that high ball. It’s a penalty if it doesn’t make second contact before the other teams. It’s a long ball. So high ball’s probably the one you see the most by far. You know, ’cause you’re going up there to get your full approach and might get an extra inch or two there.

Advocacy and Community Building

Asher: How does, um, adaptive Sports Northwest advocate and/or support people with disabilities? And I know you talked a little bit about it.��

Jen: Yeah. like I said, I, I, I think we’re here for the community right. As a whole.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, and I talked a little bit about the school systems for sure with advocating there, but also within like, local gyms and rec centers, you know, our partnerships with, you know, Portland Parks and Rec and Lake Oswego and different ones. Just trying to spread, you know, awareness in general. And then obviously the advocacy part comes in there too, especially around kids, right. And making sure that they have access to physical education and that they’re not just being thrown on the sidelines to keep score, you know, and some of those other things that you sometimes see.

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: So it’s educational around there, making sure we go to conferences that we’re, you know, in, into the, you know, the VA system, into the different hospitals around town, trying to just always educate.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, especially around sports and recreation. ’cause I think it’s a lot, a lot easier sometimes for folks, and not that they want to maybe not make it inclusive, but they don’t know how, so they’re scared. So we try to advocate and try to educate, and just be a resource to folks to go, to go. It’s really not that scary. Um, and you know, the other big barrier is cost, right?��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, and things. So trying to advocate that way too, as well and, and utilizing our system. I get so upset if we have equipment not being used right. I was like, so might as well, like, hey, why not get it in kids, get it into the schools, you know, have people check it out so they can, you know, recreate with their family. We just finished you our cycling, um, program this, this summer out at PIR.��

Asher: Oh��

Jen: But hey, we have all these bikes, so, you know, check ’em out. Do the equipment loan program, you know, and continue that, that advocacy and keep and keep going. So that’s our big thing. And like I said, I think the more we’re in rec centers, the more we’re, we’re out there, we’re always educating the public and our approach is inclusive, right? So you don’t have to have a disability, just come and check it out. We have sports chairs, so if you wanna play wheelchair basketball, I don’t care if you have a disability or not, let’s play it. You know, you wanna play goalball? Awesome. Here’s a blindfold, let’s do it.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, and stuff��

Asher: I would be a bit intimidated by that.��

Jen: So it’s, um, so I think that’s, you know, that’s part of my thing. I, I, I think is, it’s, it’s hard, you know, being a member of the disability community, like we are always fighting for access, I think.��

Miguel: Yes, absolutely.��

Jen: Um, all the time. And so I would think it would be hypocritical for us to be like, Hey, here’s a sport, here’s recreational, but you can’t participate, right? So we encourage families, friends, community members come and check it out right? Come and play it. It’s just a sport. We just do it in a different way. And so we have, you know, our, our, our cycling program this summer, we have over 351 riders this summer, which is awesome, you know, or over eight weeks and stuff. And we got folks on tandems, we got people on hand cycles for the first time getting on trikes and just experiencing that and, you know, and we encourage folks to bring their own bikes too, right? So families are riding together and things. So it was, it was just, it’s an awesome program and like I said, any of our, our sports programs practices, we welcome everyone to come try it out, um, or volunteer with us, come try out the sport. Just get involved with us and, and build that community. Um, some of our things, like I said, when you go to competitions, you know, for, for wheelchair basketball competition, you might have to qualify in for that.

So you might not be able to compete at the national level, but you can always come to our practices and be involved in our community.��

Asher: Oh, for sure. That’s really cool.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Once again, you’re listening to Let’s Talk ˿����Ƶs broadcast about disability culture.��

Annual Events and Tournaments

Asher: I was a little bit curious, like you have, you’ve been mentioning that there’s like a lot of different events that, uh, Adaptive Northwest does. Is there anything that happens like every year or like is there any special events that happens with you guys?��

Jen: Yeah, so we host a lot of tournaments. Um, so we just got done with like our Junior Cascade Classic, which is a goalball tournament. So we had youth from around the country coming in and we do that over the school for the blinds over in Washington. And then we have our wheelchair basketball tournament coming up in December. Sometimes it’s in November, but it’s usually sometime in the winter. Um, we have our big goalball tournament that’ll always be in February, um, as well for the adults. And we host usually a, wheelchair, um, rugby tournament of some sort too. We help with the Portland Pounders. Um, they host that. And then we also host a, you know, a track and field, competition, uh, and hopefully soon maybe our own swimming competition as well. So we host a lot of those things. Um, we have our annual get in the game fundraiser that happens every year as well. That always happens in May. Um, and things like that. So there’s always ways for people to get involved again, rather that’s, it’s volunteering, it’s coming out to scorekeep, it’s, you know, doing anything like that. And then we have our, like I said, regular practices, right. For all those different sports teams or activities, so.��

Asher: Oh yeah for sure.

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: You guys got anything? Michelle? Miguel,��

Miguel: Do you wanna walk through listeners how they could, you know, like, go to the event? Or how does that work?��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Getting Involved with Adaptive Sports Northwest

Jen: So, I mean, the best way to get involved is if you check out our website, Adaptive Sports with an S, nw.org. It has, you know, how you get involved, whether that’s as an athlete, as a volunteer, as a donor. Um, it has a list of all of our calendar events and things. And ours are drop in as far as our practices and stuff like that. So all we ask, you know, if you, if you do drop in, you’re gonna have to, you know, sign a waiver, um, and things like that. And if you want to, you can just do a membership prior to, and membership is for the entire calendar year. So you do that one time and it always has a waiver in it, which is nice. And then you just come and drop in. Rather, it’s our, it’s archery. Or you wanna check out wheelchair basketball or you wanna check out goalball, our cycling program.

Miguel: So��

Jen: fun.��

Asher: Ooh, I love archery. I haven’t played in such a long time.��

Miguel: I’ve never done archery, Jen, so it would be super fun to try.��

Jen: Oh, the Sunday.��

Michelle: Oh, Sunday.��

Asher: Where is it at?��

Jen: Um, Archers of field down in Tualatin��

Asher: Oh oh��

Jen: Yep. So��

Asher: That’s very cool.��

Michelle: And what time?��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Uh, 4 to 5:30 I believe.

Miguel: I, I could, I can imagine Michelle doing goalball. That’d be so much fun.��

Michelle: It sounds really fun.��

Asher: Put on a blindfolding,��

Miguel: Get Michelle to feel��

Jen: Yeah. If you guys like the speed stuff, power soccer. Yeah. We have recreation power soccer as well as competitive power soccer. So that’s always a fun one. They have, you know, power chairs and strike force chairs for folks to try as well. So again, you don’t have to have, you know, you don’t have to be an everyday power chair user, to play the sport.��

Michelle: That’s cool. Can you explain what power chairs are?��

Asher: Yeah��

Jen: Sure, so, um, they’re electric, you know, power wheelchairs. but for the sport of power soccer, they have a guard on, on them on the front that’s a strike plate. Uh, the ball’s a little bit bigger than a traditional soccer ball played on an indoor court, and so they use the, you know, using the strike plate to, to make contact with the ball, to quote, kick it. It’s four on four. It’s fine. It’s fast paced. Um, yeah, our, our renegades are our competitive side. Um, but we have recreational as well, um, for folks just wanting to try the sport and again, just building that community.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, it’s one of our newer sports. It came into our pro, our kind of our profile the last six or seven years. But there was a need, right. ‘Cause a lot of our, our wheelchair basketball, wheelchair rugby, some of those are our manual sports chairs. Um, but we didn’t have, you know, a sport really for, for power chair users. And so this was a kind of a, it’s a fun, great team sport, for folks to, to play, so.��

Asher: Wow.

Michelle: Yeah. I feel like that sounds pretty interesting.��

Jen: It is.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Yeah. We’ll host a power soccer tournament as well in the spring.��

Michelle: Cool.��

Asher: Very cool.��

Miguel: Where do you guys do your track and fuel events?��

Jen: We do our practices in a couple different locations. Um, mostly at East Portland Community Center, And, uh, what is that? Floyd Light Middle School. They have that track that’s right behind there. So we do practices usually out there. And then we also have used, some different tracks on the, on the west side as well. Um, just kind of depending on what’s open mm-hmm. At that time. But Eastport Lake Community Center / Floyd Light has been our primary track. Um��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And then we’ve, um, held our track meet out Centennial as well. Centennial High School, so.��

Asher: That’s very cool. You mentioned like different schools and colleges and organizations.��

Partnerships and Collaborations

Asher: What are some of them that you partner that, adapt the Sports Northwest, uh, uh, partners with?

Jen: Yeah. So, like I said, with the Parks and Rec department, so, you know, east Portland Community Center, we, we host some of our, our practices and activities over there. We’re meeting with Mount Scott here shortly.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: As they go to reopen theirs. Um, lake Oswego. Um, rec center, um, Hillsborough Parks and Rec out, out on the we, way west side. Um, so we partner with them, but then also our community partners, right. Oregon Spinal Cord Injury Connect, um, Shriners, Dorn Beckers, Rio. Um, so a lot of those as well as the VAs, um, both here in, you know, across the river in Vancouver. And then we also partner even regionally, right? With, you know, um, Seattle Adaptive Sports outta Seattle and Rainier Adaptive Sports. Just trying to make sure we can just be right. We’re always stronger together.��

Asher: Oh yeah��

Miguel: For sure.��

Jen: In silos. So we also, you know, partner up with Northwest Association Blind Athletes for some of our things. Like we had our cycling series, they were doing their, you know, they were doing their, um, the triathlon and things like that. So I was like, Hey, we have the track, you know, let your folks know, come out on Monday nights, right?��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, we have the tandems, we have those kind of things, so, um. So we try to partner with them, you know, that goal ball as well. We partner with them. Um, so yeah, so it’s just finding those community partners and making those connections. Um, amputee soccer. It’s not one of our sports, but we absolutely, you know, try to, to partner with them. Portland Tennis Education Center, lot of places within the community. Um, ’cause again, we always say we can’t be everything to everyone, right?��

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Jen: So we have a huge try it series as well that we try to do. So we did, you know, para and we’ve with Movement gym and we’ve done, adaptive tennis, adaptive pickleball and adaptive table tennis with um, Portland Tennis and Education Center.��

Miguel: That sounds like so much fun.��

Jen: We’re getting ready to do a, a thing for, uh, adaptive fencing. Both on the blind VI side and��

Asher: Adaptive fencing!��

Michelle: I’d be down for that.

Jen: Yeah, we’re doing adaptive golf try it thing coming up. so we’ve, we do a lot of different things through our try it series as well, ’cause again, we unfortunately, we’re a very small nonprofit, right?��

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Jen: So we already run 10 programs, which is a lot more than, you know, from ongoing. Right? Like.��

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Jen: So any, any given week, we have three to five things going on, if not more between practices.

Miguel: You go to multiple things, right, Jen?��

Jen: �۱��.��

Miguel: Okay. Okay. So it’s not just like you go to this away and you can’t go to the next one. ���첹��.��

Jen: You listen at the time. Yeah, no. And so, yeah, so it’s, so we’re busy.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, for a 10, but the Try it series, we try to do one every other month. and we’re just setting those up. They’ll start, you know, in January again, but like I said, we’ll do golf. I, I know we have golf on the agenda. Fencing. Climbing. I’m not sure what adaptive pinball is, but we’re about to learn about it��

Asher: Pinball?��

Jen: So yeah.��

Asher: Retro pinball!��

Jen: So yeah.��

Michelle: That would be interesting.

Jen: So we’re meeting somebody with adaptive pinball. Um, so that’ll probably be one of our Tri it events coming up too, so yeah. So it’s just making those connections with the community, right.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, because I think, again, people want it.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And they wanna be able to understand it, and they’re like, hey, I have this, how do I make it work for everyone? And things, so that’s where we, like I said, we could kind of come in and go, cool. They, they’re like, we want this, this, this, and this. This is my place. How can I, how can I make that adaptive? How can I make it inclusive? How do we get folks? Um, we do a lot with a, a safe scuba.��

Asher: Oh��

Jen: As well, so we do a Try it event, um, outta scuba as well each year. Um, so that’ll be another one that’s on our, our list next year.��

Asher: Wait, scuba as in scuba diving?��

Jen: Uhhuh, uh, scuba.��

Asher: Yo, I wanna do scuba diving.��

Jen: There you go. Yeah. So yeah, we do that usually, usually it’s in August, so, I mean, we don’t have the, the dates for sure, but that’s usually when we do it.��

Asher: Love to do scuba diving, but I feel like it, we’ll be just too cold right now.

Jen: Yeah, yeah.��

Asher: Yeah. No, this is perfect for you. Like, Miguel, you do dragon boating too with, um, NW. Um,��

Michelle: Yeah, NWABA.��

Asher: NWABA. Oh my goodness. Yeah. NWABA. Yeah. Uh. have, have you heard of, um, Adaptive Sports in Northwest before Miguel, or?��

Miguel: Yeah, I have. I met Jen in the past.

Asher: ����.��

Miguel: Um, but, you know, I need, I need to get more involved.��

Asher: I did not make that connection. Okay. That’s very cool.��

Miguel: What is something, Jen, that you want to, like, what’s a sport that you want, you’re like, man, we should really have this. Like, do you think we should have like a, I don’t know, like a beat baseball team Portland or like a bowling team that.

Asher: Bowling team?

Jen: Well, so it’s interesting you talked about, so I was gonna say baseball, not necessarily beat baseball for sure. Maybe that one too, but.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um. The Miracle League. So we’re working with Easterseals too. They’re trying to get a Miracle League field.��

Michelle: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, here, you know, and so that would be kind of cool. It’s one of the ones when we do a, a survey and stuff like that, baseball, softball has been a, a popular one. That’s why we do pickleball now. It all came from a survey, so everybody pickleball nuts, right? Everybody’s all about the pickleball.��

Asher: Oh yeah. Oh gosh.

Michelle: That’s great.��

Jen: And so that’s what we added, uh, about a year and a half ago, two years ago, um, with the new grant. So, um, so that’s, that was our newest sport that we added. You asked about kayaking before, we kind of kicked that off of our repertoire and put in pickleball, um, and stuff. ’cause again, we work with a lot of folks in the area, right. So adventures got limits and leap and, and those type things to, they already have Adaptive, um, things and, and they do it well on the outdoors. So��

Asher: yes.��

Jen: Um, that’s where we, what we do with advocacy. So I think part of that too is also with the referral piece, right?��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: On what makes sense, what are you into? Awesome. And let’s connect you to where that makes the most sense, if that’s what you’re into. Like I said before, we had, you know, we’re, we’re doing a Try it thing with the fencing thing, but even before that, or with Portland Tennis Education Center, we knew wheelchair tennis was happening already over there. So we used those resources to kinda go, oh, you’re into that. Awesome. Here’s who you need to contact.

Asher: Oh, yeah, for sure.��

Jen: And just trying to get people in the right spots. So, you know, if people are kayaking, we’re like, “Hey, Adventures without limits is right here in town.” That’s who, who kind of handles more of the outdoor stuff, or you’re in the Bend area, awesome. Oregon Adaptive Sports is down there, right?

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And if you want snow skiing and those things, so, so, yeah. So it’s just using those different resources and letting folks know, you know, what else is out there. And so again, I’m all about the partnerships and community building versus trying to be in a silo and, yeah. It’s not a competition, right?

Asher: No.��

Jen: We’re always, we’re always gonna be better at collaborating, so.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Yeah. yeah. I think we, um, we did interview, um, Adventures Without Limits recently.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Which was really fun.��

Jen: Awesome.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Encouraging Participation and Overcoming Barriers

Asher: I was gonna say, just like with trying out new things, I feel like the first thing, at least for me, and I speak for myself, is that it’s so difficult to figure out what to start with because I wanna go out and I want to be more active but, at the same time, I’m like, oh, I wanna do it with people. But at the same time,��

Miguel: Yeah��

Asher: the, like, I don’t, I don’t know how to feel about doing it with strangers, but I also wanna like, meet new people. Like,��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Is there, like, I don’t know, is there like a way to encourage people who are also just going through like difficulties like that who are wanting to go out and do new things, but are just afraid of reaching out.

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So a lot of, again, I would encourage the, the, the website, um, and then contacting us, right? Rather, that’s through our programs at Adaptive Sports and w.org or calling us, you know, on the phone numbers that are listed. Um, mines, you know, 5032410850. We’re all willing to kind of talk through, whether through email or, or through the phone call, kind of talking about what is it, your interest is what makes sense, and it might be that soft handoff to having that talk with a coach or a volunteer, right?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And doing those kind of things too. Like, “Hey, maybe I’m interested in archery.” You know, okay, let me put you in, in contact with Matt, our program guy who runs archery, right? Um, and things like that so you can kind of know what to expect before you get there. And again, we also encourage folks too to just come check it out. We’re not, you don’t have to try wheelchair basketball, but if you wanna come check it out, come check it out. Right? And, and then maybe that’s where you can talk and you can ask those questions and, and not feel obligated, like, oh my gosh, I have to know how to play wheelchair basketball to do that. No. Or, I have to know how to play goalball. Nah, just come to our practices, right?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: There’s enough folks that are gonna be able to talk with you and, and do more of the one-on-one if you need that, um, either prior to or, you know, at, at a practice or at a program, so.��

Asher: Yeah. Cool. Um, do you have a favorite sport? And I, I bet you have a favorite sport. You play so many different kinds of sports, but what’s your, like, absolute favorite that you like to play?��

Jen: That’s a tough one. Um, ’cause like I said, my go-to’s always basketball, right? I love and always have loved basketball.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, and so my, passion, goalball obviously is way up there as well. Um, it’s been, you know, part of my life for 30 years, but, I don’t know. I, that changes, I think on. And then are you talking, watching or playing?��

Asher: Um.��

Jen: Right, because it’s football season right now, so go Eagles. Right. So, um, so that would be my thing. Um,��

Asher: Watching it would be?��

Jen: Oh yeah, football.��

Asher: Oh, okay. And what, uh, what about playing it?

Jen: Playing it, that’s what I’m saying. It’s tough, right?��

Asher: Yeah. No.��

Jen: Um, and right now, like I, I’m training for Ironman. I still don’t love running or swimming. Um, but I do, I love, I love the. Methodical nature of training for it though.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And it’s ’cause it’s three different disciplines. It’s fun ’cause it’s not, it’s a different, it’s different workouts all the time, right?

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Um, and stuff. But I don’t know, like I said, goalball’s still probably up there for, for my favorite to to kind of play and, and play coach and just be involved with for sure, so.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Miguel: When do you have your Ironman?��

Ironman Journey and Training Plans

Asher: Yeah,��

Jen: October 18th. So I had to defer. I was supposed to actually do my Ironman last month. Um, but I had to defer till next year ’cause of medical, so, yeah. So October 18th though, 2026.��

Asher: Cool.��

Miguel: We’ll be cheering you on.��

Jen: There you go.��

Miguel: Cheering you on, you know.��

Jen: Thanks.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�!��

Jen: Yeah. And I’ll probably do the, I did the 70.3, um, just over a year ago, and so I’ll probably do that again down in Salem as a warmup so.��

Asher: That’s very cool.��

Jen: That’s a fun one.��

Discussing Ironman Distances

Michelle: And what are the distances for Iron Man?��

Asher: Yeah?��

Jen: For the full Ironman?��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Uh, 2.4 Mile swim. Then followed by 112 mile bike and then a full marathon. So 26.0��

Michelle: My gosh. Like I love running, but not that much.��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: That’s a lot of running.��

Michelle: It is a lot of running.��

Jen: Yeah.

Michelle: ���첹��.��

Miguel: Maybe one day when I’m in really good shape.��

Michelle: Oh my gosh. At two miles of swimming too.��

Jen: 2.4! Don’t short the point four.��

Michelle: 2.4.��

Asher: Yeah. Once again, you’re listening to Let’s Talk ˿����Ƶ’s broadcast about disability culture.��

Favorite Sports and Personal Experiences

Asher: Um, what’s your favorite sport Michelle? Oh my goodness. I was looking, I was looking at Michelle and I was gonna say Miguel, I’m sorry.��

Michelle: Our names have a, very similar ring to it.��

Asher: You both start with M.��

Michelle: Yes��

Asher: and I.��

Michelle: Yes. And we have that. Yes. That, that melody.��

Asher: What is your favorite sport if you have one?��

Michelle: Oh gosh. Track and field. Hands down.

Asher: Track and field.��

Michelle: Yeah.

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Michelle: I love it. It’s just like the variety of it too.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: That’s very cool. And have you done a lot of track and field in the past before?

Michelle: Oh yes.��

Miguel: I did too, by the way.��

Michelle: High school.��

Miguel: High school. I did too. I did it in high school. �۱𲹳�.��

Michelle: Fun.��

Asher: What’s your favorite, uh, Miguel? And it can’t be dragon boating because we already know that you do dragon boating.��

Miguel: My favorite. Uh, that’s a really hard one. Um, favorite sport.

Asher: We can come back to you. If you want.

Miguel: You know, I would say maybe I really like swimming. I think I would love to be on a swimming team. That would be fun. �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Swimming team.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Miguel: I think that would be super fun.��

Jen: All right. If the swimming happens on Sunday afternoons? Hey, there you go.

Asher: Wait, do you, do you do dragon boating on the weekends, Miguel? Or?��

Miguel: Um, right now practices have been canceled. I don’t know why people don’t want to go out in the rain.��

Asher: Oh, of course.��

Jen: Beyond the water, but not get hit by water.��

Michelle: Yeah, there, there’s wind right now too, so that can probably be a part of it too.��

Miguel: Yeah that’s probably what it is. But it’s,��

Exploring Unique Sports

Michelle: I feel like they’re like, so one of the interesting sports that I’ve heard about is like, I think it’s like cross country skiing.��

Asher: Ohhhhhh..��

Michelle: But then like, they have targets, they have to shoot��

Jen: Biathlon.��

Michelle: That’s what it’s called?��

Jen: �۱��.��

Michelle: A biathlon.��

Jen: �۱��.��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Asher: Fine.��

Jen: It’s cross country skiing. And then you shoot,��

Asher: That’s so, that sounds so extreme. What if you hit something else?

Michelle: I know right?��

Jen: But, okay. Will you stop, it’s a range.��

Asher: Oh, �ǰ첹��.��

Jen: So you get done and then you flip your rifle ’cause they have it. Um, it’s a Paralympic sport as well.��

Michelle: Oh, okay. I thought it was like you’re just kind of skiing around and then they’re like, here’s a flying target.��

Asher: Yeah. No, I was thinking that too.

Jen: You ski into the thing and then you, yeah, and then you shoot standing.

Asher: So you’re not, you’re not skiing and shooting at the same time.��

Jen: No.��

Asher: That would take some skill.��

Jen: That would actually be very��

Asher: Very skilled.��

Jen: Yeah. It’s the whole, I mean, right. The, the challenge of that is right, ’cause you’re getting your cardio up, right?

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Because you’re, it’s miles of cross country skiing, then you have to stop and be able to steady enough to shoot��

Oh,��

While breathing.��

Asher: Wow.��

Jen: Right. So it’s all control.��

Asher: That’s very cool. �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Yeah. It’s a Paralympic sport. Winter Paralympic sport. So, um, and it’s both seated, um, ambulatory and VI categories.

Asher: Oh wow.��

Jen: So.��

Asher: Mm-hmm. I think at least a sport for myself. And, I played volleyball when I was in high school.��

Jen: Yeah?��

Asher: I think because it was just the stereotype for my entire class. All the girls played volleyball, all the guys played soccer, and I was just like, all right, whatever. I’ll just play some volleyball.

Jen: �۱��.��

Asher: And was not good at it at all. I would injure myself so much trying to save those shots.��

Jen: Do you wanna try sit volleyball?��

Asher: Do what volleyball?��

Jen: We have sit volleyball.��

Asher: Sit volleyball?.��

Jen: That’ll start up in January.��

Asher: What’s sit volleyball?��

Jen: It’s, so it’s played on a smaller court.��

Asher: ���첹��.��

Jen: But you’re seated. Um, the net’s lower. And basically when you make contact with the ball, the rules are the same except for when you make contact with the ball. Your buttock / hip region has to be in contact with the floor.��

Asher: ����.��

Jen: While you make contact with the ball.��

Miguel: Oh, wow. That does a strong core with that.��

Michelle: Yeah, I know.��

Asher: How do you?��

Michelle: Can you move around?��

Jen: Yeah, you can move around.��

Asher: On your butt? You just shuffle around?��

Jen: It’s a whole art, but if you come out to sit volleyball, we can show you.��

Michelle: Cool.��

Jen: We can show you techniques.��

Asher: ���첹��.��

Michelle: Wow. I feel like we need to go and like look at all those sports��

Jen: �۱𲹳�.��

Michelle: Sports and then come back for a follow up.

Jen: There you go.��

Asher: Yeah, no, exactly. And be like.��

Miguel: That would take.��

Michelle: Take a little tour��

Jen: Would be��

Michelle: of all the sports there��

Miguel: Yeah. We can do like a mini series of like us trying everything out and be like, okay, what do you guys think of all these?��

Asher: Asher Michelle and Miguel tries Adaptive Sports .��

Miguel: That can be a fight.

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Miguel: And, and since Kayla, her boss, loves the snippets of like different audio.��

Michelle: We become like PCC Try Guys.��

Asher: Oh yes. The PCC Try guys��

Michelle: Oh my god.��

Asher: Except it’s Accessibility Tries.��

Michelle: Try guys.��

Miguel: Try guys.��

Asher: Accessibility Tries Guys, TM��

Michelle: We could say something. Yeah��

Miguel: That would be super cool.��

Adaptive Sports Success Stories

Asher: Jen, do you have any success stories as far as like working with Adaptive Sports Northwest? Like if you’ve seen any person that’s come in and it’s like, I’m not sure what to try, and then they tried out something. It was like really loved it.��

Jen: There’s a lot of ’em right? So where do we start?��

Asher: What’s your favorite? �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Maybe I’ll start some more recent one. I think… One of the one is the kids are always gonna be a, a thing for me right. I mean, it’s just so, to watch them, you know, to go, “Hey, can, can I get a, can I have a sports chair for, for my PE class?”��

Michelle: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And to have them come back and go, go from, so he was doing a focus group for me, and he was so, he’s like, “PE sucks”. That was his thing, right? He’s like, it stinks. I said, and I’m like, okay. You know, 14-year-old kid, you know? And he is like, they just, they don’t know what to do. They just have me go outside and, you know, push in my chair.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: My everyday chair, but I wanna play. And then, but credit to his adapted Phys Ed class, his school, they’re like, they came to us and went, okay he says, you have these sports chairs. How do we get one? And stuff. So we, we worked with the schools to do that and then I saw him like three months later and he went from the kid, they, they didn’t want him In PE right? His, he’s like, they never wanted me on the team.��

Asher: Mm.��

Jen: They didn’t want whatever. He goes, I’m the coolest kid now in school, in my PE class. Like he’s, ’cause we gave him not one but two sports chairs. So he would be in a sports chair, but then somebody on the other team would be in a sports chair as well.��

Asher: ����.��

Jen: And there’s a big fight over who gets to be in the cool sports chair. They’re fast, they’re agile, they’re, you know, and stuff like that. So to see this kid that’s like, I hate PE too, this is the coolest thing ever. ’cause he is a sporty guy. Like he loves sports, loves being active and going, I can fully participate. You know, and he went from a middle school that was in a middle school and now he’s in the high school.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And his high school stepped up this year too and said the same thing. They’re like, we want it. What do we need to do? Let’s, let’s get it. Um, so I think that’s one of the cooler ones. And then I think one of the other more recent ones too is, you know, new newly injured, spinal cord injury athlete that, had, you know, played standing basketball and we introduced them to wheelchair basketball for the first time, which was cool. Not knowing, watching the sport and having basketball back in their life. But to me, like the bigger stuff to watch through that year was someone traveling for the first time.��

Miguel: Oh wow.��

Asher: Oh wow.��

Jen: Right? Had never been on a plane, sensor injury type thing and watching their growth or the first time they got into, you know, a different vehicle. ‘Cause again, life is not this perfectly adaptive, accessible place, right?��

Asher: No.��

Jen: Um, but traveling with sports and stuff like you, you know, elevators go down, right?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Things happen and things. And so to watch this individual just, start problem solving that through, not just on her own, but with her teammates that have lived that experience too, right? Like, oh, this is how I transfer to a really big Toyota Tundra, you know?��

Asher: Wow.��

Jen: And things. Or this is what I need, or how do, what assistance do I need? Or what can I do on my own? Or how do I build that up? And things are, hey, this transfer board really works really well for me. Or this is, you know, the first time we were transferring was like, how do I get into a big sprinter van?

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: How do I do that? And things, so just watching those things that happen off the court to me, are as important, if not more important than what happens on the court. You know, same thing for kids, right? Like, we’re a stickler for, for our kids. We don’t make parents go, right?��

Miguel: Oh, you don’t.��

Jen: Oh, absolutely not, right? Because in what other year 12, year 15 travel team, you don’t, your parents don’t have to go right and stuff. So we’re very committed to making sure that it’s. It is on them so they can have that experience of being a kid.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Right. Traveling in in a van. Traveling in a bus with their, with their teammates. Having the, the hotel experience, right?��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: But also the experience of guess what? Laundry needs to get done. You need to get it done. You know, you know. Or different things like they’re, all the things that they learn off the court to me are as valuable, if not more valuable than the X’s and O’s are.

Asher: Oh, yeah.��

Jen: On the court. Um, and so our, you know, our volunteers and, and our coaches that, that work with youth and, or even with our adults and different things, they know it, they get it. They come from that part of it, on where do you step in, how do you get them to advocate for themselves, and then just watch ’em getting stronger and stronger. Right? I mean, I just got back from a, a wheelchair basketball trip a couple weeks ago with this individual and just watching them transfer to the car, I’m like, wow, you’re getting totally way stronger. And they’re like, oh yeah! You know, where a year ago before it was, what do I do? You know?��

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Jen: Um, and it’s just that to watch them, you know, transfer into a 15 passenger on their own and doing those kind of things as they get stronger, more confident in what they’re doing, or traveling, you know, they travel for the first time with their injury with us on a, on a basketball trip.

Asher: Oh, wow.��

Jen: And then to be able to send them to a camp on their own, like to, to negotiate traveling all by themselves, you know. They were like, it’s not something I thought was in my future. So those to me are the cooler stories, right.

Asher: I love that.��

Jen: And watching that happen.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So.��

Michelle: That’s very cool.��

Jen: Yeah.

Michelle: Wow.��

Asher: Yeah. sorry, I’m looking through my list. I’m like, what other the questions have I not asked you yet?��

History of Adaptive Sports

Asher: How did Adaptive Sports start? I would say is my question. �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: You mean our organization? I assume not the.��

Asher: Yeah. How did.��

Jen: I was like, do you want, like do you want the history of?��

Asher: The whole history?��

Jen: I would say, yeah.

Asher: If you can tell me the whole history, that’ll be great too.��

Jen: I can tell you the history of the Paralympics.��

Asher: �۱��.��

Jen: So it started, um, after World War II, right? You had a lot of injured soldiers coming back. And so the Madoff Games, they started that with kind of wheelchair sports, different things. And then 1960 were the first Paralympic Games.

Michelle: Wow.��

Jen: Um, in Rome. That’s where the, where it started really was, was injured military folks coming back. So that’s how the kind of Paralympics started and really about adaptive sports really, was, you know, injured folks coming back from war and going, hey, you know, sports is such a big culture in, in the military and so you had all these soldiers returning with injuries and different things going, oh, I still want to shoot archery, I still wanna play basketball! I still wanna do X, Y, or Z. So that’s kind of where that, you know, you know, the Paralympic Games grew from the Manfield games down in England, back in 19, now I gotta really test my history, 40 something. I think were the first Mansfield games.��

Asher: 1940. Wow.��

Jen: Um, 40 something. I don’t remember the exact, but yeah, 49 maybe? It’s on my test in the class that I teach at Portland State. Actually, it’s an extra credit question. So they had to.��

Asher: You did it.��

Jen: Exactly. It’s an extra credit question, but as far as Adaptive Sports Northwest, um, been around since 1982.

Asher: Wow.��

Jen: I think about three different name changes. Um, again, kind of started from a wheelchair sports, um, perspective and kind of concentrating on, on basketball was, was kind of the, the, the main sport at that time.��

Asher: Mm.��

Jen: It’s grown and grown and grown. Um, like I said, I came and I moved to Portland in 2010.��

Asher: Oh, okay.

Jen: Um, and things, and since then, you know, with being part of the organization, like I said, it was Oregon Disability Sports when I came to it. And then it was, you know, Adaptive Sports Northwest now.��

Asher: Mm.��

Jen: But even since I’ve came in 2010, we’ve probably almost doubled our offerings.��

Asher: Wow.��

Michelle: Wow.��

Jen: Um, because we, you know, we added power soccer, we added goalball, um, track and field, uh, pickleball��

Asher: mm-hmm.

Jen: And sit volleyball. So yeah. So we’ve definitely doubled and kind of before it was kind of wheelchair basketball, rugby, were kind of the two main sports that you, that you kinda saw little bit of folks with, and cycling, were kind of our three main sports, um, when I first got here. And they were kind of dabbling into the other things and different stuff. ‘Cause again, it was even a smaller organization than what we are now. And we’re still, if you add us all up, we’re still under three, part-time. I mean, sorry, three full-time staff if you add everybody up, and things like that. So we do a lot.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: With very little, which is why we, you know, we, we absolutely depend on volunteers, donations, grants and, and those type things.��

Asher: I bet��

Jen: To be able to operate. Um, ‘ cause we, I think I, our impact report’s almost done, we had almost a thousand folks with disabilities that we contacted last year. 1000. Wow. Just under that, you know, between coaches, athletes. and different things that were, that were there. And that’s not kind of like the bigger impact, right?

Asher: Strong, but.��

Jen: When you start talking about the other impact that you have around families and��

Miguel: �۱��.��

Jen: And things like that and, and just the, the general public, it’d be a lot higher. But, yeah, 900 plus individuals for sure that we, that we tapped into, you know, between competitions, practices, everything.

Asher: Cool. So.��

Community Impact and Family Involvement

Miguel: And Jen, how do the fa, like, what, what are your experiences like with the family seeing their loved ones, like grow and love of sports or like their love of like, learning new things? Have you seen any changes in that?��

Jen: Oh, absolutely. I mean, like I said, I, I go back to our cycling series, right?

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Like, they’re like, we get a bike as a family��

Asher: mm-hmm.��

Jen: In a safe environment. Right. We have a two mile track��

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: That’s paved and nice and we’re not having to worry about anything else. And ‘ cause like I said, maybe your, your kid or your spouse, or your friend or your partner is their first time on an adaptive, right? They maybe they haven’t biked since their injury��

Asher: mm-hmm.��

Jen: Or they’ve just never been exposed to a bike. Maybe they were born with a disability, but they’ve never been able to bike, right? And so to, to watch them go, whoa, there is a bike. Oh, I can do this. And, and how do we, how do we go from there? You know? Right. They said that’s checking one out so they can go on other biking adventures with their families. Or like I said, even playing with their kids, right? Mm-hmm. Like knowing that I, I, we have our youth wheelchair basketball, but we have enough chairs there too. A couple of bigger ones too that, you know, to watch parents get in it or sibling.

Michelle: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And go. I get to play with, with my brother or my sister. �龱�����.��

Michelle: Sweet.��

Jen: Because that’s, that’s something that they’ve been able to experience before. So that absolutely has been fun to watch. And like I said, that’s what we encourage, right?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Is those, to have that experience. Right? So not every, I mean, I, I can’t get my kid out of a wheelchair basketball if he’s at a tournament. He loves playing wheelchair basketball. He doesn’t like stand. I could not get him to love basketball. And I love the sport, but he loves wheelchair basketball. Absolutely adores it and loves playing it. And I don’t know, it’s ’cause he’s not quite tall yet, so he is like sweet, everybody’s playing seated. I don’t know. I don’t really know. But he loves and he loves the chairs, he loves the speed of the chairs, the agility of the chairs, um, and things like that. And, and so, but to watch, I mean, that’s the last practice I was at, you know, with, with the, with the youth kids. It was fun to just watch. I think we had two different siblings that jumped into it and I think a dad jumped in and wanted to play too and stuff like that. ’cause he is like, I get to shoot hoops with my kid.��

Asher: Aw.��

Jen: And stuff. So you know, or we were at a Tri it thing, or it wasn’t even a Try it thing, it was a community thing, um, for when the announcement of the, the fire.��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Well, before the fire was announced, we just knew we were getting A WNBA team. Um, but we were set at the Blazers thing and, it was actually one of our board members. Um, and her partner, son has a disability and Ambulatory Cp, but we had our wheelchair, kind of a pop shot type thing going on with our little, little hoop.

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And he got in a chair for the first time and he was so much more agile, right?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: And loved it where he’s played, um, special Olympics basketball standing, but his balance is a little bit questionable, you know, and different things. But he loves wheelchair basketball, right? And so those are the things, and to, to watch his dad go. Oh my gosh. Like, why didn’t we do this years ago? We know about you guys. Like we, but we just had, hadn’t thought or made that connection of doing that. Like we have a lot of folks with, you know, with amateur that might use walkers or different things that aren’t everyday chair users. But again, trying to do a, a sport with their walker or different things might not be it, but now they’ve introduced to a sports chair and they’re like, oh, I don’t have to worry about my balance. I don’t have to worry about this and I can, I can play basketball and I can play pickleball and I can I can play all these different sports that, that I didn’t know I could. and things rather that’s in the PE setting or that’s even with their family, so.��

Asher: Oh yeah.��

Jen: It’s definitely, yeah, it’s a huge impact. Um, and I think I, I always go back to, I think that’s the cooler stuff than, than our X’s and O’s sometimes.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Michelle: For sure.��

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Michelle: For sure.��

Jen: From the impact.��

Asher: Yeah. No, definitely. .��

Challenges and Accessibility in Gyms

Miguel: And Jen, what do you think of like, I know for me, I’ve always struggled with like going to gyms because people see my cane and they’re like scared and they don’t want to gimme like a membership. And I’m like, I just want to use the treadmill or use, you know, like the equipment or go to a water aerobics or, you know, like those types of things. Like have you guys partnered with any gyms in the area? Like?��

Jen: We, we have, we have not formally partnered. We have partnered though with plenty of gyms in the area. And a lot of that is from our members, right. Going, Hey, I have this 24 hour fitness, or I have this, whatever I have, whatever gym, whatever X gym��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And stuff like that. And I have this disability. This is what I’d like, how, how do I make it happen?��

Asher: �ѳ�-�󳾳�.��

Jen: Um, and things. And so I think that’s. Yeah. So we’ve came in again, to, to kind of help places kind of with the educational part of that, or again, trying to get our folks to also advocate for themselves too on what they need and how, education is exhausting though.

Miguel: �۱��.��

Asher: Yeah I know.��

Jen: Right. It absolutely gets exhausting. And so, you know, that’s one of our big partners too. East Portland Community Center is one of our, our big partners and things like that. And their gym is accessible. Like it’s, it’s a totally cool place. And a lot of perks, you know, a lot of the rec centers obviously are going to that. Hillsborough, Hidden Creek out in Hillsborough, um, is fully accessible. so I think that’s also, again, just like driving folks to other places is going, Hey, do you know these other resources already exist?��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Right. So maybe if you don’t wanna go to commercial gym A��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Like, have you thought about Portland Community Centers?

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: And where do you live at and how do we get you in there? You know, or rather that’s Tualatin hills, or there’s different places that��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: That we, that we can access, and things like that. So we definitely have done that. Or I mean, we’ve even done it for like apartment complexes, right? Like, I have my apartment complex and I want this treadmill and I want it to be accessible, but it’s not what I need to do. I’m like Scotch tape and toothpicks. It’s awesome.��

Miguel: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Right. And stuff. I’m not asking you to make everything braille and do all that kind of stuff, but I can make an up arrow and a down arrow and a quick start. Really easy.��

Miguel: Yeah. And a stop light. �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: Correct. Because that’s what everybody worries about right? Sometimes is how the cost of things, right? Oh, yeah. And things. And I’m like, there’s, I always call it cheap and easy, right? There’s a lot of ways to make it cheap and easy, and a lot of it is around education and just making folks. Again, I think they, they wanna do it, they just don’t know how and they’re scared.

Asher: �۱𲹳�.��

Jen: So their go-to is just like, no.��

Asher: Yeah, no,��

Jen: Because they’re scared, so.��

Asher: Yeah. No.��

Miguel: Well, now I know that the East Community Center is accessible I might be checking it out soon.��

Jen: Yes, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s fun. That’s where my primary training site for my Ironman stuff, but it’s also our office is right across the street, so it’s helpful.

Miguel: Cool. I can start practicing for my triathlon. I gotta beat somebody by 40 minutes next year, so.��

Asher: 40 minutes.��

Miguel: Yes.

Asher: Cool.��

Encouragement and Closing Statements

Asher: Well we’re getting to the end of our time soon, but do we, any of us have any like closing statements? Especially you, Jen, is there anything you wanna tell our audience as far as like encouraging them to either volunteer or come check out the sports events going on at Adaptive?��

Jen: I think that would be my thing is, yeah, check out our website, um, or follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

Asher: Hey.��

Jen: We had our first viral go the other day on Instagram. Over 3 million.��

Miguel: Wow.��

Asher: Three Million?��

Jen: It was.��

Miguel: Congratulations.��

Asher: User likes!��

Jen: We didn’t really know what to do. We’re like, what do we do? and things. So, but yeah, so yeah, I follow us on Instagram. Facebook would be great. And like I said, it’s, you know, check out our website, see how you can get involved, whether that’s, again, wanting to check out as an athlete, you wanna check out as a volunteer, or you just wanna come check out because Adaptive Sports is awesome. Just yeah, check out what we do, and see how you can get involved.��

Asher: Very cool. Well, Miguel, you wanna close us off with our closing statement, our outro.��

Miguel: Thank for listening to Let’s Talk. ˿����Ƶ’s Broadcast is about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at . You can also find listed resources on today’s episode page hosted on KBOO FM. Search for Let’s Talk. This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk Podcast. Collective is a collaborative effort between students, the accessible education and disability resource department, the PCC Multimedia Department and KBOO. We post newly recorded content biweekly on our home web web page. Again, that’s , and we hope you always tune into our shows here on every first and third Friday of the month at 11:00 AM.